The several Nord Piano key actions?

[pianopeddler]

Would appreciate comments on differences among the "feel" of these actions and how they are implemented:

Fully Weighted Hammer Action with aftertouch (Stage 3 88) Is the aftertouch global or polyphonic? I.e., triggering AT on one key applies the assigned "effect" to all sounding notes, or just the one note?
Portable Weighted Hammer Action with aftertouch (Stage 3 HP76). Does this feel more like the Stage 3 - 73 Waterfall keyboard, or does it feel closer to a truly weighted KB?
Weighted Triple Sensor Virtual Hammer Action ( Do the 3 sensors measure key velocity at 3 different points of key depression?) Does, the VHA really affect the feel of the action? Is VHA technology only on the upcoming Piano 5 keyboards?
Kawai Hammer Keybed with Ivory Touch (Nord Grand). I assume the Ivory Touch is simply the surface finish on the keys, presumably mimicking the feel of real ivory?

Thanks, I'm trying to decide which keyboard to buy. It's hard finding any retailers that actually have any larger Nords on display in the US....

[anotherscott]

Aftertouch on Nords is "channel" aftertouch, i.e. global to all keys (technically, all keys on the same MIDI channel).

Portable Weighted (HP) is a true weighted action (i.e. it has hammers). It does not "feel closer to a truly weighted KB", rather it IS a truly weighted KB. Just not a particularly great feeling one. (However, its travel weight is low, thaht's the trade-off.) It certainly feels absolutely nothing like the waterfall action.

Triple sensor means that you don't have to lift the key all the way back up past the top sensor before being able to hit it again. This allows you to restrike a note from low in its travel, which is particularly good for quiet repetitions and trills. It also allows you to re-strike a note without silencing it first. (You can always do that if you have the sustain pedal down, but the third sensor allows you to do this even without having the pedal down.)

[FZiegler]

I'm not sure about it, but I think that AT is global (as for most keyboards) and I wouldn't call it 'channel' aftertouch because of possible misunderstanding as I'd guess that -- if you have applied AT effects to a certain sound engine on a certain keyboard zone -- it would have impact on all keys of that zone even if you 'fire' AT from a key outside that zone. I think there is no localisation of the AT effect at all.

There are different judgements about the HP action on the forum. Some say they'd handle it well. In my eyes, it's light in a sense of weight but not feeling. The HP is the one I'd recommend least to buy without testing before. You may control piano velocity better with it than with a SW action, though.

At no point the velocity or speed of a key is measured directly: Each sensor of most keyboards is only on or off. But the keyboard logic calculates the velocity from the delay between the sensors - which means a triple sensor keyboard can measure velocity for partially prepressed keys, too - which leads to a behavior anotherscott explained perfectly. It just replicates the behaviour of a double escapement grand piano action.

The ivory touch thing is said to have an impact on the grip you have with wet, sweating fingers. But I don't have any experience with that and don't know if it's true.

The virtual hammer action is something the Piano 4 already had. But I can't tell about the effect neither.

You will find mentioned on the board and elsewhere that the Piano 4/5 action is a bit stiffer than the Stage 3 HA action - but I haven't played the two against each other. I'm used to play upright piano and like the stiffer type more.

[anotherscott]

I wouldn't call it 'channel' aftertouch

That's the official designation from the MMA (the organization responsible for the MIDI spec).

By default, if aftertouch is sent on any note played on a given channel, all notes played on that channel will exhibit the associated behavior. And if you press multiple keys down hard enough to trigger aftertouch, the value of the hardest pressed note is the value that is used to affect all the notes.

[FZiegler]

My point was: if aftertouch is played on a certain keyboard, there will be physically no distinction of channels. Only when it is being sent via MIDI, it's a channel thing. As far as I have understood. Isn't the aftertouch sensor only a strip with variable resistance depending on pressure? Which should even tend to be additive to a certain amount if you hit multiple keys?

[cphollis]

Let me try: original text with replies.
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[Fully Weighted Hammer Action with aftertouch (Stage 3 88) Is the aftertouch global or polyphonic? I.e., triggering AT on one key applies the assigned "effect" to all sounding notes, or just the one note?] -- as mentioned above, the hardest-pressed note will drive the midi value for all notes. The soft aftertouch strip can affect your playing style if you're used to real acoustic pianos, although the action itself I found quite nice.

[Portable Weighted Hammer Action with aftertouch (Stage 3 HP76). Does this feel more like the Stage 3 - 73 Waterfall keyboard, or does it feel closer to a truly weighted KB?] -- It's a weighted board, and can be used quite well with things like EPs and such. It's mostly OK for APs as well, except it's built to be light, and as a result it's a very light weighted action for me.

[Weighted Triple Sensor Virtual Hammer Action ( Do the 3 sensors measure key velocity at 3 different points of key depression?) Does, the VHA really affect the feel of the action? Is VHA technology only on the upcoming Piano 5 keyboards?] -- my NP4 has the last iteration of triple sensor, and it's pretty nice. You don't notice the difference until you're playing very delicate passages, or very fast notes, etc. I can assume that the NP5 is incrementally better in that regard.

[Kawai Hammer Keybed with Ivory Touch (Nord Grand). I assume the Ivory Touch is simply the surface finish on the keys, presumably mimicking the feel of real ivory?] -- yes. I liked the texture, especially for those of us who tend to sweat. Nothing wrong with the texture of NP, Stage etc. they do a good job and feel great.

[Thanks, I'm trying to decide which keyboard to buy. It's hard finding any retailers that actually have any larger Nords on display in the US....] -- good luck with that! If you're like the rest of us, you do your homework, and take the plunge. The benefit is that if you know exactly what you want, you can get it much cheaper online. As a NP4 owner, I didn't see anything in the NP5 that got me excited. While the Stage 3 88 is an awesome beast, I'm better served by having an unweighted NS3C above and a dedicated weighted controller below (the aforementioned NP4).

I checked recently, a "B stock" NS3C is now $3100 in the US w/free shipping. I think that's a great price. Adding a nice weighted controller could keep you below the price of a new NS3 88. You'd also have unweighted for organ/synth, no aftertouch on your weighted board, etc.

I may buy another NS3C at that price -- they are great boards if you play in a bunch of different bands.

Best of luck!

[anotherscott]

My point was: if aftertouch is played on a certain keyboard, there will be physically no distinction of channels. Only when it is being sent via MIDI, it's a channel thing. As far as I have understood. Isn't the aftertouch sensor only a strip with variable resistance depending on pressure? Which should even tend to be additive to a certain amount if you hit multiple keys?

My main point was that "channel aftertouch" is the official correct MIDI nomenclature. It is an interesting question as to whether keyboards use MIDI to process the aftertouch sensor internally, I don't know the answer, or for that matter whether all manufacturers do it the same way. But regardless, it would be problematic if they did not handle it, if not directly via MIDI, then at least in the exact same manner. If the internal behavior was different from the behavior over MIDI, then if you recorded a performance into a sequencer, the performance would not play back properly to recreate your performance.

Similarly, I don't know whether all aftertouch sensors/strips are built the same way, or if it's possible to be additive, but officially, according to the spec, the aftertouch command is supposed to send "the single greatest pressure value (of all the current depressed keys)."

[joaofrancisco]

Is the action on the Nord Stage "lighter" or less enjoyable than the Nord Piano 4? I have already tried the NP4 action and it felt amazing but I do not have access to an NS3 to try it out. I am currently interested in buying a Nord Piano 5 but as the price stands currently, I think in the long run a Nord Stage 3 would be a better choice. My only concern is that the action is not heavy enough and "piano enjoyable"! Can someone help me to clarify this matter? Than you!

[cphollis]

Joao, piano actions are very subjective, so I can only share my personal experience. I found the weighted action on the NS3 quite nice and "piano enjoyable" except for the soft aftertouch strip, which meant I couldn't get a hard bounce on the keys. So the bottom of the action felt mushy to me. I eventually sold it.

The same Fatar action without the aftertouch strip I found more enjoyable. I enjoy playing piano music on the NP4 more than I did the NS3 88. I do not think this is a Nord issue, more of "weighted keyboard action with mushy aftertouch strip is not for me" issue.

[maxpiano]

The same Fatar action without the aftertouch strip I found more enjoyable. I enjoy playing piano music on the NP4 more than I did the NS3 88. I do not think this is a Nord issue, more of "weighted keyboard action with mushy aftertouch strip is not for me" issue.

Just for the sake of completeness, the N3 and NP4 action is a Fatar TP40 in both cases but with a different weighing, L (Light) for NS3 while for NP4 is M (Medium) if I remember well, or maybe it is H (anyway not L). This is to make organs and synth sounds (particularly solo synths) more playable on on the Stage, which makes some sense vs the Piano not having an organ section and being more piano (or piano/pad) oriented