Nord User Forum

[anotherscott]

Nord, for the Stage 4, please a) don't fill up all the available Piano and Synth memory and make me have to go through the pain of removing things before adding my own stuff

This is an age old conflict that many brands have dealt with: Do you fill up all the space to give customers the most possible content out of the box, and leave it to them to remove things they don't like to make room for their own stuff? Or do you leave a whole bunch of space empty, providing fewer sounds (in effect, less immediate value) to customers out of the box, but leaving them room to save their own stuff without removing anything? There's no right answer.

I think what Nord does in filling it up provides the most value to the most customers. I think Nord is smart in letting you see which samples are not used in any programs, that's key. Those can be deleted painlessly, in that they don't affect any programs... delete them when you bring it home, and you have just what you want, a new NS3 with a bunch of space to store your own samples, with all factory programs intact. But Nord decided to put some erasable and replaceable (or reloadable) stuff there, because it makes the board more musically useful out of the box than empty space.

The way I see it, there are two groups of used being addressed:

...the user who brings it home and may go months or longer without ever hooking it up to a computer. This user gets most value by including as many samples as possible out of the box.

...the more computer savvy user who wants to swap samples or add his own. This user, if savvy enough to be loading new samples, is also savvy enough to make room be deleting clearly unused samples (with the full knowledge that it's easy to put them back at any time). It also gives you the convenience of being able to audition those samples and see what you like, without the time consuming process of having to load them in first.

[Schorsch]

This is an age old conflict that many brands have dealt with: Do you fill up all the space (...) and leave it to them to remove things they don't like to make room for their own stuff? Or do you leave a whole bunch of space empty (...) leaving them room to save their own stuff without removing anything?

Actually, at least in the stage piano category (workstations are a different matter), most brands do neither.
They just give you a fixed sample set, and if you want to update to better samples, you have to buy a new board.

I think this is an aspect of Clavia that often is underestimated: they were the first to provide a relatively simple bread-and-butter board which can be totally personalized and updated for its whole lifetime for "free" (brackets are because of course it's not really free, you pay for the lifelong updates when you buy the board at its premium price).

[pterm]

Does anyone actually know what kind of RAM Nord uses? I'm hearing lots of "it's too expensive to include more memory", and they use some mysterious super high tech RAM without any specification of what exactly they use and what it costs. I mean, how much can memory cost already? I'm genuinely curious what they use. They didn't spare on anything else. I have yet to hear a reasonable explanation for such low memory. I'm not trying to bash Nord, I'm a huge fan and I love the work that they do. It just baffles me how in today's day in age the most they can do is 1gb (for the majority of the lineup).

This response is my opinion:
To me this is a matter of development cost rather than material cost.

The Stage 2's used NXP Coldfire 32-bit processors, so we know Nord invested heavily to develop software and systems for that processor platform (and likely continue to use it). The 32-bit systems only have 32 address lines so contain a limit on the amount of memory space available for the processor to directly access. For example, in systems like Windows 32-bit there was a 4GB RAM limit. A PC possesses the resources to swap needed data from PHYSICAL RAM or ROM to disk using the operating system. This takes time though (why is my PC so slow!).

Nord lacks this option because their system must operate in real-time to switch between samples during live performance without stopping the audio. As I understand it, this means they must rely on physically-connected memory so they must remain within pin-addressable limits. At some point they just run out of pins on the processor.

I see Nord constantly increasing the available memory for samples as they release new keyboards (so we know they're working on this), but until they make the hardware and software leap to 64-bit systems this limitation will always exist. This likely requires a massive investment on Nord's part -- as others pointed out, I too think their money is better spent providing new samples and maintaining the existing library.

[maxpiano]

Does anyone actually know what kind of RAM Nord uses? I'm hearing lots of "it's too expensive to include more memory", and they use some mysterious super high tech RAM without any specification of what exactly they use and what it costs. I mean, how much can memory cost already? I'm genuinely curious what they use. They didn't spare on anything else. I have yet to hear a reasonable explanation for such low memory. I'm not trying to bash Nord, I'm a huge fan and I love the work that they do. It just baffles me how in today's day in age the most they can do is 1gb (for the majority of the lineup).

This response is my opinion:
To me this is a matter of development cost rather than material cost.

The Stage 2's used NXP Coldfire 32-bit processors, so we know Nord invested heavily to develop software and systems for that processor platform (and likely continue to use it). The 32-bit systems only have 32 address lines so contain a limit on the amount of memory space available for the processor to directly access. For example, in systems like Windows 32-bit there was a 4GB RAM limit. A PC possesses the resources to swap needed data from PHYSICAL RAM or ROM to disk using the operating system. This takes time though (why is my PC so slow!).

Nord lacks this option because their system must operate in real-time to switch between samples during live performance without stopping the audio. As I understand it, this means they must rely on physically-connected memory so they must remain within pin-addressable limits. At some point they just run out of pins on the processor.

I see Nord constantly increasing the available memory for samples as they release new keyboards (so we know they're working on this), but until they make the hardware and software leap to 64-bit systems this limitation will always exist. This likely requires a massive investment on Nord's part -- as others pointed out, I too think their money is better spent providing new samples and maintaining the existing library.

This is THE answer, bottom line, also in my opinion.

[pterm]

Does anyone actually know what kind of RAM Nord uses? I'm hearing lots of "it's too expensive to include more memory", and they use some mysterious super high tech RAM without any specification of what exactly they use and what it costs. I mean, how much can memory cost already? I'm genuinely curious what they use. They didn't spare on anything else. I have yet to hear a reasonable explanation for such low memory. I'm not trying to bash Nord, I'm a huge fan and I love the work that they do. It just baffles me how in today's day in age the most they can do is 1gb (for the majority of the lineup).

This response is my opinion:
To me this is a matter of development cost rather than material cost.

The Stage 2's used NXP Coldfire 32-bit processors, so we know Nord invested heavily to develop software and systems for that processor platform (and likely continue to use it). The 32-bit systems only have 32 address lines so contain a limit on the amount of memory space available for the processor to directly access. For example, in systems like Windows 32-bit there was a 4GB RAM limit. A PC possesses the resources to swap needed data from PHYSICAL RAM or ROM to disk using the operating system. This takes time though (why is my PC so slow!).

Nord lacks this option because their system must operate in real-time to switch between samples during live performance without stopping the audio. As I understand it, this means they must rely on physically-connected memory so they must remain within pin-addressable limits. At some point they just run out of pins on the processor.

I see Nord constantly increasing the available memory for samples as they release new keyboards (so we know they're working on this), but until they make the hardware and software leap to 64-bit systems this limitation will always exist. This likely requires a massive investment on Nord's part -- as others pointed out, I too think their money is better spent providing new samples and maintaining the existing library.

Fair enough. And yes, their money is definitely better spent on providing new samples which is really the ultimate point of the instrument.

[anotherscott]

This is an age old conflict that many brands have dealt with: Do you fill up all the space (...) and leave it to them to remove things they don't like to make room for their own stuff? Or do you leave a whole bunch of space empty (...) leaving them room to save their own stuff without removing anything?

Actually, at least in the stage piano category (workstations are a different matter), most brands do neither.
They just give you a fixed sample set, and if you want to update to better samples, you have to buy a new board. ).

True, but I was talking about the concept more broadly. Any board that lets you create user presets is in the same situation... the manufacturer had to decide whether to fill up all available program spots and let you rewrite over ones you don't like OR give you less, i.e. leave a bunch intentionally blank, so you can save your own sounds without thinking about deleting anything.

[analogika]

My Stage 2 had four banks of programs, IIRC, with the first being a duplicate of the fourth. I thought that was pretty brilliant.

[anotherscott]

My Stage 2 had four banks of programs, IIRC, with the first being a duplicate of the fourth. I thought that was pretty brilliant.

Yes, it was a way of providing "nothing" without so easily prompting new users to complain "hey, why did you leave all this space empty?"

[pablomastodon]

Too many people place too much significance on factory programming as though it has been brought down from the mountain top engraved on stone tablets. For one thing, it is always replaceable/restorable. Factory programming should be considered to be guidepost suggestions shining lights in various direction; the user can take these and refine them to suit their needs. Yes, there are those who do not wish to delve into that realm but...

I am the cook in my family. Sometimes I will begin a meal prep by opening a can (especially after hurricane season winds down and it's time to consume unused emergency supplies), but it will seldom happen that the heated up can is eaten as is. Always better to mix some fresh ingredients in, tweak it this way or that.

Players will greatly benefit from a deeper knowledge of their instruments if they treat the factory programming the same way on ANY brand instrument.

And yes, duplicating Banks A and D in the NS2 was a pretty brilliant move

[reggoboy]

The lack of memory in a $3000 machine is beyond frustrating

Totally agree.

And no, deleting a bunch of little samples that you don't use won't compensate for wanting to load, say White Piano, which burns through tons of memory instantly. You can either have an awesome sounding grand piano, or maybe everything else you want. But not both.

And sure it's non-volatile memory. We all have iPhones and mobile devices, most of which have 64-256GB of NVM. That's orders of magnitude more than we have in the Stage.

The point is, memory is not the place to skimp. What's the point of having an awesome keyboard if your hands are tied by skimping on storage. I have tons of features and program banks, but I can't use them because the sounds I want are offline.