Nord User Forum

[Mr_-G-]

Just tested it here on a NS3 and a NW2; what you hear is beating (or destructive interference) caused by intentional small differences in frequency. It probably restarts the phase somewhat randomly every time you hit a new key, and it also varies a bit over the keyboard.

I agree that it sounds a bit weird in the example you gave, but I also think it would sound similarly strange on real analog synths with different analog oscillators for each tone and sub.

As Hobster also suggested, if you want the sub to be in tune, use configuration 4 (detune) instead of 7 (MixSaw), and still select the sub and just apply no de-tuning. Then they stay in sync... of course you cannot then use the LFO to modulate the ratio between the two nor use two different waveforms -- but you may get something closer to what you want?

[FZiegler]

This is applied science for advanced scolars: Use detune to get the oscillators in tune... Great for synth newbies like me.

[CountFosco]

The beating speed increases as you play further up the keyboard which reminds me of very slightly out-of-tune oscillators

Yes that's telling. I suppose the mistuning is constant in terms of cents, so that the absolute frequency difference between the oscillators in Hz increases with higher pitch. Interesting that the effect is so similar to applying an LFO to the mix between (in my example) triangle and sawtooth waves. Because we have interaction of two different waveshapes, the amplitude modulation of the fundamental tone isn't really the interesting feature, it's the modulation of the upper part of the harmonic train. When the waveshape is dominated by the sawtooth we hear more of the upper harmonics than when the triangle dominates the upper harmonics are attenuated.

Just tested it here on a NS3 and a NW2; what you hear is beating (or destructive interference) caused by intentional small differences in frequency. It probably restarts the phase somewhat randomly every time you hit a new key, and it also varies a bit over the keyboard.

But what's also interesting is that this effect is not present in the A1. It must have been a design choice to introduce that mistuning in the Stage synth, which is, as I understand it, based on the A1 synth engine.

[Kaffimusic]

Going the path to use the "detune-zero" setting with two identical waveforms cancels out the shifting in sound, yes. But it does not sound the same. As it is now, the only solution I see is to waste another panel and mix a similar stage of synth. One is set to tri, one is set to saw, and both use the detune setting (with detune zero naturally). I already did and the two panels are in tune, no shifting audible. Trying to get that gnarly sound is obviously not possible with just one layer of synth. Nord should add an option to tune the sub with the "two waveforms"-setting. Maybe add just an on/off for detune or tuned. Because sometimes the detuning is nice. Sometimes it´s not.

[DJKeys]

Yes, the two layers settings is another option -- I think I still hear a bit of phasing going on even if both are at detune to 0, but it's less than in the other setting.

Note that if the lower/sub osc is sine wave, it has no overtones (by definition), and thus cannot cancel out the fundamental frequency -- so that may also be an option. However, if you then add distortion in some ways (e.g. the drive setting), it will start to generate overtones and then phase cancelling become audible, so it may not be an option in your case.

On the NW2, the configuration is a bit different; what I referred to was simply the same option of using two layers, which are then also having similar phasing. It has, however, dual saw (and tripple saw) configurations where the two (three) stay in sync. So it's possible to have a non-phasing sound on the NW2 using two (or three) stacked saw waves, somewhat similar what you can get with the detune setting using a saw on the NS3.

@CountFosco: I'm wondering what settings on the A1 were used -- also a detune configuration or some other two-osc setting?

[CountFosco]

@CountFosco: I'm wondering what settings on the A1 were used -- also a detune configuration or some other two-osc setting?

I looked at pics of the Stage control surface, and it's a little different from the A1. But, it seems close enough to follow the example from the OP. I wasn't using a detune config, I was using a 2 osc setting (so I could combine triangle with saw).

Oh, I just started everytime with a plain and empty program. There are not many parameters to set, goes pretty fast. Just switch on the synth, set to tri, turn to mix with saw, turn down saw to sub, turn mix to mainly tri and just a bit saw, filter full open, drive switch to 2. There you have it.

I did the following on the A1:

With triangle oscillator, Osc config: Saw sub, Osc ctrl set to about 0.2 ( ! ) LFO rate set to match what I hear in your recording, LFO amount (in oscillator section) set to 6ish, I think I have exactly what you have. Are you sure there is no active LFO?

ie My main oscillator (I guess that's OSC 1 in Stageland) was a triangle. My Osc config was set to Sa-1 ("-1" = 8vb) which seems to be the equivalent of the OPs Saw Sub. Then with Osc ctrl you control how much of that saw to mix in to the triangle. With a low value for osc ctrl I had approx the same sound as the OP, but no beating. When I varied Osc ctrl, or used an LFO to do that, I got very similar effect to the beat (except the beat frequency wasn't dependent on pitch). It sounds to me like the equivalent function, but there appears to be no mistuning on the A1 using a two osc setting. Unless there's a fundamental difference between the S3 and A1 synth engines I'm missing?

[baekgaard]

My Osc config was set to Sa-1 ("-1" = 8vb) which seems to be the equivalent of the OPs Saw Sub. Then with Osc ctrl you control how much of that saw to mix in to the triangle. With a low value for osc ctrl I had approx the same sound as the OP, but no beating. When I varied Osc ctrl, or used an LFO to do that, I got very similar effect to the beat (except the beat frequency wasn't dependent on pitch). It sounds to me like the equivalent function, but there appears to be no mistuning on the A1 using a two osc setting. Unless there's a fundamental difference between the S3 and A1 synth engines I'm missing?

Hm... so you say that there is no audible beating at low osc ctrl settings, but at higher osc ctrl settings you hear beating?

Assuming osc ctrl varies the amount (level) of sub osc only, then if you hear beating at ANY setting, the sub osc cannot be in sync, but also has the same slight mis-tuning.

Or maybe I didn't fully understand what you wrote, in which case I apologise up-front

[CountFosco]

Hm... so you say that there is no audible beating at low osc ctrl settings, but at higher osc ctrl settings you hear beating?

Nope, I mean, on the NLA1, with a 2 oscillator setting, there is no beating, basta. Any time I use a 2 oscillator mix, the two oscillators are in tune.

I shouldn't have said this cos it was confusing:

When I varied Osc ctrl

(sorry!)

I should have said only this:

When I...used an LFO to do that, I got very similar effect to the beat (except the beat frequency wasn't dependent on pitch).

(I mean the only way I could get the beat was to simulate it by applying an LFO to the oscillator mix.)

[baekgaard]

Got it, thanks for clarifying

[Kaffimusic]

I wrote to Nord service about that.