General Discussion of the Nord Stage (EX), Nord Stage 2 (EX), and Nord Stage 3 Synths, FAQ, Troubleshooting etc.

Re: Restore NS2 programs to my new NS3

Postby IndianerJonas » 03 Apr 2018, 19:21

DJKeys wrote:This has always been the case with Nord instruments. I had the NS2 for 5 years and spent hours on programming. I have uploaded many programs to this forum. I don't use *any* standard presets at all. When I got the NS3, I deleted all of the factory programs. It took me about 25 hours to program ~75 new programs for the band tunes I am doing. But, I enjoy programming, and can tell you that the NS3 is easier to program and has more powerful features that make this possible.

-dj


Thanks, I feel the encouragment.
I like programming as well. And I guess now I will find out, how good and fast I am...;)
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Re: Restore NS2 programs to my new NS3


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Re: Restore NS2 programs to my new NS3

Postby IndianerJonas » 03 Apr 2018, 19:23

dhbp-nord wrote:This is something every keyboard player has to contend with on a regular basis. Technology changes. For Nord to bake backwards compatibility into new products would only cost time (money) and then put all kinds of limitations/complications on the architecture. Consider the NS3 as a new keyboard instead of a mod to the NS2.

I bet it takes you half the time to recreate your patches, if you already know your way around the NS2. Consider it a challenge! :-)

DH


I hope so, thanks for the wise words.
Guess youre right with seeing it as a new keyboard.
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Re: Restore NS2 programs to my new NS3

Postby analogika » 04 Apr 2018, 00:08

I like this place.
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Re: Restore NS2 programs to my new NS3

Postby Marnopiako » 01 May 2018, 11:25

dhbp-nord wrote:This is something every keyboard player has to contend with on a regular basis. Technology changes. For Nord to bake backwards compatibility into new products would only cost time (money) and then put all kinds of limitations/complications on the architecture. Consider the NS3 as a new keyboard instead of a mod to the NS2.

I bet it takes you half the time to recreate your patches, if you already know your way around the NS2. Consider it a challenge! :-)

DH


When I speak to many keyboardist around me they don't buy the new one because they don't want to reprogram.
I'm talking about professional musician that won't or don't have that time to spend so they stick to their old Nord version...
These people advertise the brand on stages every day!!
Isn't THAT a waste of money for Clavia?
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Re: Restore NS2 programs to my new NS3

Postby dhbp-nord » 01 May 2018, 12:04

How many other keyboards do this? Precious few I would think.

And building this in would limit and complicate new features - the architectures are not the same between NS2 and NS3. This costs time and money. As it is the Nord Sample library is compatible.

DH
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Re: Restore NS2 programs to my new NS3

Postby analogika » 01 May 2018, 13:02

Marnopiako wrote:
dhbp-nord wrote:This is something every keyboard player has to contend with on a regular basis. Technology changes. For Nord to bake backwards compatibility into new products would only cost time (money) and then put all kinds of limitations/complications on the architecture. Consider the NS3 as a new keyboard instead of a mod to the NS2.

I bet it takes you half the time to recreate your patches, if you already know your way around the NS2. Consider it a challenge! :-)

DH


When I speak to many keyboardist around me they don't buy the new one because they don't want to reprogram.
I'm talking about professional musician that won't or don't have that time to spend so they stick to their old Nord version...
These people advertise the brand on stages every day!!
Isn't THAT a waste of money for Clavia?


Keyboard players’ reality check:

Changing your setup involves reprogramming.
If this isn’t feasible, then don’t switch. Your old board will work fine for decades to come, doing everything you bought it for.
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Re: Restore NS2 programs to my new NS3

Postby Marnopiako » 01 May 2018, 15:44

analogika wrote:
Marnopiako wrote:
dhbp-nord wrote:This is something every keyboard player has to contend with on a regular basis. Technology changes. For Nord to bake backwards compatibility into new products would only cost time (money) and then put all kinds of limitations/complications on the architecture. Consider the NS3 as a new keyboard instead of a mod to the NS2.

I bet it takes you half the time to recreate your patches, if you already know your way around the NS2. Consider it a challenge! :-)

DH


When I speak to many keyboardist around me they don't buy the new one because they don't want to reprogram.
I'm talking about professional musician that won't or don't have that time to spend so they stick to their old Nord version...
These people advertise the brand on stages every day!!
Isn't THAT a waste of money for Clavia?


Keyboard players’ reality check:

Changing your setup involves reprogramming.
If this isn’t feasible, then don’t switch. Your old board will work fine for decades to come, doing everything you bought it for.



Everybody works in different ways.
I got your opinion on the matter, fine.
I've had Nords since they started the stage.
I've been in contact with them and do I have to remind you that a lot of new features added these years were because they listen to us.
I express my opinion today and I know that one day they will find a solution for us.
It doesn't mean I hate the brand and I think it's good to talk about problems we have.
The forum is made for that no?
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Re: Restore NS2 programs to my new NS3

Postby analogika » 01 May 2018, 19:32

Yes. But the topic has really been done to death.
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Re: Restore NS2 programs to my new NS3

Postby anotherscott » 01 May 2018, 21:11

Marnopiako wrote:When I speak to many keyboardist around me they don't buy the new one because they don't want to reprogram.
I'm talking about professional musician that won't or don't have that time to spend so they stick to their old Nord version...
These people advertise the brand on stages every day!!
Isn't THAT a waste of money for Clavia?

If they still have a Nord on stage, even if it's an old one, they are still advertising the brand on stages every day.

This is not at all unique to Nord. How many times do you see a band that's been around a while, and the keyboard player is still playing his old Triton or Fantom, whatever? One reason is, they still work fine, not everyone cares about the latest and greatest. But also, they don't want to lose or have to figure out how to recreate their old trademark sounds, and the newer Korgs/Rolands don't play the old patches. In short, as they say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

OTOH, Yamaha came out with a 2.0 update to the Montage this year. Its big feature? Compatibility with patches from Motif XS/XF and MOXF. Smart. Kurzweil has probably been about the best in terms of letting you load old programs into new boards,

I do think a NS2-->NS3 converter is feasible, something that would get you most of the way there on the vast majority of Programs. As has been pointed out, piano and organ engines are almost identical. Heck, even just bringing over a Program's split points and engine assignments for the two slots would be a significant timesaver right there. Bring over the drawbar registrations... they might sound slightly different with the updated organ engine, but it would be close. Maybe they can't bring over exactly which piano you used (could be tricky if the boards have different pianos in them, or even possibly even if they have the same pianos in different order... though those issues would also exist just bringing an NS2 program from one NS2 to another). But even then, just bringing over that it is a grand, or an upright, or an EP, again usually gets you close. Almost every synth parameter in the NS2 has an equivalent in the NS3, except in FM, I think (and again, the caveat about what samples are loaded and where). Again, equivalent synth settings--particularly in combination with one another, as the different controls sometimes interact with each other--won't necessarily get you the same sound, but at least gives you a good starting point. It doesn't have to be perfect for it to be very helpful.

I understand, Nord doesn't have huge resources, and unless such a utility actually persuades a lot of NS2 to trade up, there's not a certain cash return to be had. If that were the stumbling block, my hope would be that they would release the program data formats publicly, and then some users or independent programmers might take on the challenge... though even documenting a file format for "outsider" use may not be a trivial project.

Another issue might be that there are some NS2 functions that just don't exist in the NS3, and a translator and commensurate temptation for NS2 owners to upgrade further publicizes the things the NS3 doesn't do, as NS2 upgraders will think they can convert their programs and then complain... hey, my Dual KB programs don't work right anymore. Some of my clav EQ is missing. My programs rely on different MIDI channels for different instruments, that doesn't work. What happened to the KB/latch function? etc. Maybe Nord just doesn't want to deal with that stuff.

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Re: Restore NS2 programs to my new NS3

Postby maxpiano » 01 May 2018, 23:57

anotherscott wrote:
I do think a NS2-->NS3 converter is feasible, something that would get you most of the way there on the vast majority of Programs. As has been pointed out, piano and organ engines are almost identical. Heck, even just bringing over a Program's split points and engine assignments for the two slots would be a significant timesaver right there. Bring over the drawbar registrations... they might sound slightly different with the updated organ engine, but it would be close. Maybe they can't bring over exactly which piano you used (could be tricky if the boards have different pianos in them, or even possibly even if they have the same pianos in different order... though those issues would also exist just bringing an NS2 program from one NS2 to another). But even then, just bringing over that it is a grand, or an upright, or an EP, again usually gets you close. Almost every synth parameter in the NS2 has an equivalent in the NS3, except in FM, I think (and again, the caveat about what samples are loaded and where). Again, equivalent synth settings--particularly in combination with one another, as the different controls sometimes interact with each other--won't necessarily get you the same sound, but at least gives you a good starting point. It doesn't have to be perfect for it to be very helpful.

I understand, Nord doesn't have huge resources, and unless such a utility actually persuades a lot of NS2 to trade up, there's not a certain cash return to be had. If that were the stumbling block, my hope would be that they would release the program data formats publicly, and then some users or independent programmers might take on the challenge... though even documenting a file format for "outsider" use may not be a trivial project.

Another issue might be that there are some NS2 functions that just don't exist in the NS3, and a translator and commensurate temptation for NS2 owners to upgrade further publicizes the things the NS3 doesn't do, as NS2 upgraders will think they can convert their programs and then complain... hey, my Dual KB programs don't work right anymore. Some of my clav EQ is missing. My programs rely on different MIDI channels for different instruments, that doesn't work. What happened to the KB/latch function? etc. Maybe Nord just doesn't want to deal with that stuff.


+1 particularly on the last part and the considerations that a translator would not guarantee to get the same sound (particularly for Organ and Synth) so manual work would be required anyway.
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