General Discussion of the Nord Stage (EX), Nord Stage 2 (EX), and Nord Stage 3 Synths, FAQ, Troubleshooting etc.

Re: NS3 Velocity and General Sound vs NS2

Postby aureliopenna » 12 Mar 2018, 17:44

RichardG wrote:
aureliopenna wrote:Well, returning to the post subject....


Thank you for being so open (minded) and are willing to revisit earlier complaints/gripes and be honest about them ! :clap:

Thanks, I never thought differently, I'm always open!

It does point to the discussion right before about the hardware/versions of the (earlier) NS3 batch.
I'm wondering if Clavia has anything to say about this ?

I really hope for you that you can now base your decision between 2 fully functional instruments and choose what's best for you, because in the end YOU must be happy !


Yes the battle now is difficult, but I have to say, that if my USB function on NS2 was working I'd probably go to NS2, but once it doens't work anymore I have to think, but yes, now the keyboard sounds as expected. .
Last edited by aureliopenna on 12 Mar 2018, 18:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NS3 Velocity and General Sound vs NS2


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Re: NS3 Velocity and General Sound vs NS2

Postby aureliopenna » 12 Mar 2018, 18:55

baekgaard wrote:
aureliopenna wrote:Well, returning to the post subject....


Been looking forward to hear your update, so great to see that you share that with us as well.

I'm glad to share, because I'm not against NS3 I just feel that this a different board.

I'm not sure if I follow completely what has happened, but my current understanding is that you have now received a replacement for your original NS3C.
Yes, that's right my dealer send me another one in replacement, new for me but I don't know if this one is older or newer (release) than my old one. So this one could be an old stock board, but seams untouched and it's new to me.

In addition, did you then also get/borrow another (a 3rd) NS3 of some kind (73 or 88 model)?
No at all, I didn't.

Anyway, you wrote:

Pianos on NS3 doesn't have realease or Sympatetic Resonance like on NS2 at all...


Just checking -- but I assume you are using the exact same samples (e.g. 3D Royal XL) in both boards? And that you of course have enabled string res and soft release :-) Yes on both, sure! They are really different man, believe me, when you put one side by side to another you can see it clear with no doubts. I not guess why it is anymore because was getting a little annoying, but it is.

Did you change/try to change the level of the sympathetic resonance in the sound menu of the NS3 (you probably know, but it is an option you can tweak: Sound Menu/Piano String Res Level)? If the NS2 offers a similar option, maybe you changed that years ago away from the default value, or it could just be that Clavia have tweaked the default setting when creating the NS3 generation of instruments.

Yes, I love noise, lol, just put both pedal and SR on +6db. To me, I can't notice much difference tweaking from -6db to +6db on NS3 at all.

Dynamics ROCKS (just velocity ok, not the sound). Besides the fact that I don't like the lack of release and ressonance (causing a dry sound on NS3, good for staccatos, bad for legatos) either the lack of subtleness on "pp" dynamics and lack of harshness on "fff" dynamics, the NS3 is very correct with it dynamic. Now the board respondes what I'm playing!


I'm not sure if this is how a 3rd unit behaves (also a NS3C? YES) or what, but it seems as if (both?) your replacement unit(s) don't change the sound characteristics in the same way as your NS2C does:

Yes they both don't change comparing to NS2, but if I control NS3 via MIDI playing on NS2 also gives me a little change in dynamic too, but as equal to NS2 sound so it's hard to say once I don't have they both NS3C side by side.

Velocity on my NS2C Rev B is more explicit shown cause the pianos sampler goes from sublte sound to bright and harness sound.
To make my self clear, it is kind off they have a filter ressonance velocity activated which is cool in terms expressiveness.


I have earlier on compared how my (somewhat old) NE3 behaves compared to the more recent NS3. When playing the same piano sound, they both change between the same set of underlying sampled sounds (there is no difference between how many different samples/levels they change between). The NE3 has a somewhat exaggerated amplitude response (the dynamic range between pp and ff is higher) compared to the NS3, that seems more "natural" to me, but as said, both go through the same underlying samples from pp to ff. The NS3 seems to scale them with less artefacts and thus more cleanly within each level.

Interesting, that's how I feel too, when comparing. But even being an artefact, if we can call it this, it sounds very nice me and better, IMO.

If you (or someone else) with a NS2 would be willing to record a simple MIDI file, I could easily check if the scaling and velocity switching between samples is the same or if it's different; just PM me.

I can do this. I could write the same MIDI file something like 10 30 60 90 100 110 127 velocity and send to both keyboards. at least on 127 we would be able to compare.
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Re: NS3 Velocity and General Sound vs NS2

Postby baekgaard » 12 Mar 2018, 20:41

aureliopenna wrote:I can do this. I could write the same MIDI file something like 10 30 60 90 100 110 127 velocity and send to both keyboards. at least on 127 we would be able to compare.


Sounds good!

For several reasons, it has to be a very specific MIDI file; if not, I will have to redo my scripts (and the uncertainty will be too large).

The file to use is this one: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0kzmqb7azz56k ... s.mid?dl=0

It will be almost 9 minutes of audio to record for each board, and it would be really nice if you could record both your NS2 and your NS3.

It is very important that the recording stays in (16 or 24 bit) WAV format is NOT converted mp3.

Please also ensure that it does not clip; try to hit e.g. the -6 dBFS for the loudest note recorded (a middle F at full velocity) if you can.

Preferably, use the (XL) version of the Royal Grand, and record in stereo.

Make sure you select KBD TOUCH 0 before you start the recording.

Just pass on a link to the files, and I can then compare with how my board works (which I assume is the same as your new NS3).

Thanks ;-)

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Re: NS3 Velocity and General Sound vs NS2

Postby aureliopenna » 14 Mar 2018, 02:11

baekgaard wrote:
aureliopenna wrote:I can do this. I could write the same MIDI file something like 10 30 60 90 100 110 127 velocity and send to both keyboards. at least on 127 we would be able to compare.


Sounds good!

For several reasons, it has to be a very specific MIDI file; if not, I will have to redo my scripts (and the uncertainty will be too large).

The file to use is this one: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0kzmqb7azz56k ... s.mid?dl=0

It will be almost 9 minutes of audio to record for each board, and it would be really nice if you could record both your NS2 and your NS3.

It is very important that the recording stays in (16 or 24 bit) WAV format is NOT converted mp3.

Please also ensure that it does not clip; try to hit e.g. the -6 dBFS for the loudest note recorded (a middle F at full velocity) if you can.

Preferably, use the (XL) version of the Royal Grand, and record in stereo.

Make sure you select KBD TOUCH 0 before you start the recording.

Just pass on a link to the files, and I can then compare with how my board works (which I assume is the same as your new NS3).

Thanks ;-)


Sounds Perfect, I will follow all this instructions as soon as possible I'll do this and then post the results here right (?)
Unfortunately, I can not make this using royal XL because My NS2 has stuck the USB , so inside it I just have Royal Lrg, Bosendorfer Lrg, Bright Grand (S4) lrg and Queen Upright Lrg. Let me know which one you prefer.
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Re: NS3 Velocity and General Sound vs NS2

Postby baekgaard » 14 Mar 2018, 09:43

aureliopenna wrote:
baekgaard wrote:Sounds Perfect, I will follow all this instructions as soon as possible I'll do this and then post the results here right (?)
Unfortunately, I can not make this using royal XL because My NS2 has stuck the USB , so inside it I just have Royal Lrg, Bosendorfer Lrg, Bright Grand (S4) lrg and Queen Upright Lrg. Let me know which one you prefer.


Great -- either post the link here or send me a PM (personal message) via the board.

I forgot your NS2 had a USB problem! So if possible, please use either the Royal Lrg in both (or alternatively the Bright Grand lrg); it's in any case best if it is the same sample you're using in both. Thanks.
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Re: NS3 Velocity and General Sound vs NS2

Postby ciciss » 14 Mar 2018, 10:46

I’d like listen the results too.

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Re: NS3 Velocity and General Sound vs NS2

Postby aureliopenna » 14 Mar 2018, 15:17

Great! Tomorrow I can do this. If you don't mind will use the Bright Grand, because I already have it on booth keyboards.
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Re: NS3 Velocity and General Sound vs NS2

Postby baekgaard » 14 Mar 2018, 15:40

aureliopenna wrote:Great! Tomorrow I can do this. If you don't mind will use the Bright Grand, because I already have it on booth keyboards.


Sure, no problem (I assume both are Lrg versions)!
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Re: NS3 Velocity and General Sound vs NS2

Postby analogika » 14 Mar 2018, 20:41

cgrafx wrote:Firmware updates are not incremental so there shouldn't be any issue loading 1.36.

I am however surprised that your new NS3C would have a version of the OS that is that old.

v1.04 (2017-07-22) is from July of Last year.
v1.12 (2017-09-20) is from August of last year and anything built and shipped after that date should have 1.12 or later on it.

If yours has 1.04 on it, than it has been sitting around somewhere for eight or nine months.


It turns out, the main board with the CPU and OS has been sitting around for some months.

See here, at 0:48 :
http://www.nordkeyboards.com/vef/load/d ... height=507

It turns out that they do apparently purchase several months' worth of boards and pre-load them with the software all at once, and then put them aside for later assembly.
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Re: NS3 Velocity and General Sound vs NS2

Postby aureliopenna » 15 Mar 2018, 07:16

baekgaard wrote:
aureliopenna wrote:Great! Tomorrow I can do this. If you don't mind will use the Bright Grand, because I already have it on booth keyboards.


Sure, no problem (I assume both are Lrg versions)!

Done! Uploading soon on Google Drive.
(Yes, sure! Lrg)
BTW I did two more version, another version short release MIDI files to give us a "staccato like" sound and the other with normal release which I change the note to a Low F with another piano, Queen Upright Lrg.
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