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Re: NS3 88 Pitch Bend Stick not working any more

Postby ADSRLFO » 11 Oct 2018, 11:53

Try to disconnect an reconnect it ...it was the solution for me
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Re: NS3 88 Pitch Bend Stick not working any more


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Re: NS3 88 Pitch Bend Stick not working any more

Postby jpag57 » 14 Oct 2018, 02:49

Yes, this just occurred today - at a gig. Yay! :-(
Any solutions yet?
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Re: NS3 88 Pitch Bend Stick not working any more

Postby TinyIves » 11 Jun 2019, 10:57

Hi apologies for late reply

I've had my Nord Stage Classic since 2006, yes one of the early ones & the pitch bend stick went around 2010/2011.

Everything else on the Stage is great - it all works well.

Even though I filled out a support form on Clavia's website 5 years after purchase, all they did was pass me on to their UK service company knowing about this problem.

Now even when the only item faulty is the actual sensor (the strain gauge connected to the pitch stick), Clavia will only sell the item as a complete assembly & the replacement I requested was over £56 back in 2011!! which was from SoundTech http://www.soundtech.co.uk, Clavia's UK service company acting on Clavia's behalf. https://www.soundtech.co.uk/servicing (which incidentally was handy for Clavia! ;))

The problem
I would suggest the strain gauge attached to the pitch stick is being strained too far & breaking the thin strain gauge foil sensor. Strain gauges are not meant to be bent over or forced so much by 10 or 15 degrees!!!

They are extremely delicate parts made with a very fine metallic foil arranged in a grid pattern
& only should be used for intrumentation where they are very lightly 'strained' for high precision instruments.

If you wish to know more about how sensitive strain gauges are, then have a read of this -
http://elektron.pol.lublin.pl/elekp/ap_ ... e_Meas.pdf

You can tell the strain gauge is broken as your notes will sound a whole 'bend' out, suggesting the gauge is at its maximum extent, or open circuit.

So, a flagship product costing over £2grand & they put a £2 foil strain gauge on the pitch bend!

So obviously great idea initially, but Clavia must have come to realise that this part has a short life when used regularly.

So, my beef is the fact that Clavia have done nothing to fix this problem from the beginning of making instruments using this known problematic pitch stick bend - they know it goes faulty after use - & not just Nord Stages, but Nord Leads & Nord Waves.
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electro ... -00-a.html

... so basically everything with a Nord pitch stick! ............. so it's not fit for purpose & Clavia should be replacing it FOC with another of the same, or with an updated version FOC that last more than a few years.
Perhaps an optic one?!

Now I know Clavia have done so much for us & I'm eternally grateful for their wonderful products generally, but Clavia shouldn't be gloating about the fact they've made 75,000 wooden pitch sticks on their website - not mentioning the fact the strain gauge attached to it is guaranteed to break after warranty!
https://www.nordkeyboards.com/about-us/ ... itch-stick

I expect the famous musicians using anything with a Nord pitch stick who have experienced this fault get a bit better treatment. (no, they just keep buying replacements, oh ok!)

The Solution
Firstly - complain to Clavia.
Make a formal Customer Complaint to Clavia via their Supoort site.
this is what we should be asking Clavia -
- Why do the strain gauges in the pitch stick benders fail so quickly & so easily?

Then, read this -
https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights ... rights-act
Regarding Product Quality & what you should expect.
I found this in the Consumer Rights Act 2015 regarding unsatisfactory quality, & unfit for purpose.......
'Under the Consumer Rights Act you have a legal right to reject goods that are of unsatisfactory quality, unfit for purpose or not as described, and get a full refund - as long as you do this quickly... You can, however, ask for a digital product to be repaired or replaced if it develops a fault.'
Nice!

Next, fill out your support form on the Clavia Nordkeyboards website https://www.nordkeyboards.com/support but make sure that you mention the following words -
- Consumer Rights
- unsatisfactory quality
- not fit for purpose
- Free of charge repair or full refund

... then maybe they'll rethink their service/support on this.

So, it's a lil too late for mine now, but not yours hopefully, there are various stages regarding consumer rights to claim FOC repair/refund depending on how long before it develops the fault but basically you have up to 6 yrs in the UK to be able to claim a repair FOC or a full refund - that's including an expert report on the fault - which shouldn't be difficult because all it is, at the end of the day, is a broken foil strain gauge.
Unless you want to keep forking out your money for a new one!....that is guaranteed to fail again!

Good luck

Regards

Tiny
Last edited by TinyIves on 12 Jun 2019, 18:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NS3 88 Pitch Bend Stick not working any more

Postby TinyIves » 11 Jun 2019, 15:16

Please see my reply on another thread about the same issue
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14339&p=118471&e=118471
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Re: NS3 88 Pitch Bend Stick not working any more

Postby TinyIves » 11 Jun 2019, 15:19

There seems to be a few threads or maybe one on this topic.
So I'll try post the following text on the other relevant threads/posts

Please see my reply on another thread about the same issue
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14339&p=118471&e=118471
Last edited by TinyIves on 11 Jun 2019, 15:21, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NS3 88 Pitch Bend Stick not working any more

Postby CountFosco » 11 Jun 2019, 16:43

TinyIves wrote:The problem
I would suggest the strain gauge attached to the pitch stick is being strained too far & breaking the thin strain gauge foil sensor. Strain gauges are not meant to be bent over or forced so much by 10 or 15 degrees!!!

They are extremely delicate parts made with a very fine metallic foil arranged in a grid pattern
& only should be used for intrumentation where they are very lightly 'strained' for high precision instruments.


You've clearly put some time into this issue, and I don't want to devalue any of that, but a short debunk on that general statement about where strain gauges "should" be used. I've just got home from my day job, where we make use of strain gauges attached to rotating blades in gas turbines to evaluate their dynamic behaviour. Some of these suckers live their life in the hot gas path on turbine blades at many hundreds of °C, subjected to sustained and very high amplitude vibration. OK we use special application techniques, and they don't always last as long as we'd like, but these guys have a much harder life than the cushy job of being attached to a pitch bender.
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Re: NS3 88 Pitch Bend Stick not working any more

Postby TinyIves » 12 Jun 2019, 18:56

Fair enough, & thanks, I wanted to make sure owners of Nord's are aware what the problem is - a hardware fault.

& yes I agree strain gauges have their uses, & in different applications, & can withstand high temperature & vibration, but they are also sensitive sensors, that's why they are used in applications such as you mention.
Stuck to a fan blade is one thing, but being forced over at 10 to 15 degress repeatedly, like in the Nord instruments is another.
Surely bending over a very thin strip of metal at angles is not going to last very long.

It's just common sense. It is clearly failing, & eventually going to break - & I've noticed it may be happening to fairly new products too which is unacceptable.
I just do not believe it's a very well engineered design.
So like I said, it may be just a poor quality item.
We don't want comparisons, we want a solution.
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Re: NS3 88 Pitch Bend Stick not working any more

Postby baekgaard » 13 Jun 2019, 00:02

TinyIves wrote:I just do not believe it's a very well engineered design.


Nevertheless it is a patented design (https://patents.google.com/patent/US5696345). If anyone is interested in seeing how it works, just look at the link.

I have no idea how common the problem is, but of course it is annoying to anyone it happens to.
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Re: NS3 88 Pitch Bend Stick not working any more

Postby cgrafx » 13 Jun 2019, 06:51

Hi Tiny,

Not to dismiss your obvious pain and frustration, but your experience with a broken sensor/component does not constitute a part not fit for its intended purpose.

How many parts have actually failed. You don't know that number and you don't know how many have been shipped. You can only base your opinion on your personal experience and the limited number of others that may have had similar experience and posted online.

ALL products have failures.

The question is are they excessive, and unless you have direct knowledge of the number of failures vs the number of shipped units you really don't have any way of knowing that answer.

It obviously doesn't diminish your pain but your making claims about Nords engineering that isn't based on facts but rather your biased opinion and a statistically non-useful dataset of failures that is too small for any valid evaluation.
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