Nord Sustain Pedal 2 with NS3

[igneousrock]

Hi all,

Does anyone know if the new sustain pedal allow the NS3 to have pedal noise and half dampening?

thank you!

[rick88]

The new sustain pedal NSP2 is not yet supported by NS3, at least officially (not sure anyone had a chance to try it on a NS3 yet), only by NS4; it may require an OS update to work on NS3 (assuming there are no hardware constraints, otherwise it may never become compatible).

[rick88]

Half dampening is - in theory - not the problem. That works with a lot of continuous pedals, maybe even the NSP2. But if ever you have pedal noise activated in any program, you will get a brutal noise if you use such a pedal. So that's - in practice - not an option for secure use on stage.

That's why for the moment only a switch pedal or a Nord Triple Pedal (1) will fit for a Stage 3 -- and half dampening and pedal noise will only work with the latter.

I don't know which mechanism Nord has found for the NSP2 and the NTP2 to create pedal noise -- so no idea if there is a chance to get a NS3 to work with them. For the moment, a NS3 needs a pedal with only 3 or 4 distinctive resistance values along the pedal throw.

[maxpiano]

Half dampening is - in theory - not the problem. That works with a lot of continuous pedals, maybe even the NSP2. But if ever you have pedal noise activated in any program, you will get a brutal noise if you use such a pedal. So that's - in practice - not an option for secure use on stage.

Wait... let's be more clear: on NS3 the only way to get half pedaling and pedal noise correctly today is to use Nord Triple Pedal or a CC64 via MIDI, there is NO support for continuous pedals on NS3, they will not work at all or work erratically (if forced as Triple in the settings, because as you wrote Triple works in a different way than a continuous).

[technlgyst]

Wait... let's be more clear: on NS3 the only way to get half pedaling and pedal noise correctly today is to use Nord Triple Pedal or a CC64 via MIDI, ...

Indeed. You can use an app which takes care of implementing the correct CC64 algorithm to trigger the appropriate sequence of pedal noise sounds, even when using a switch-type sustain pedal. Check it out in the topic I created: https://www.norduserforum.com/general-n ... 25232.html

[be lee vit]

Hey, interesting app you created. I don't understand how you want it to work (a MIDI loop, right?), but my main problem at the moment are the 8 threads you reactivated to spread your gospel. In my eyes, this is contrary to the double post ban.

[technlgyst]

I'm sorry if any of my posts offended you or anybody else, that was not my intention. I wanted to help out users who have had similar but different questions in those topics by indicating that there is a way to solve their problem different from the solutions already offered. Some of the topics may be a bit older, but getting pedal noises without NTP is still a current and active issue for many in varying kinds of situations with varying rigs. Also, some posts had incorrect information that I could now correct for the benefit of all due to my digging into the subject. If the topic starters are not interested in their old topic, it will be buried in new forum posts soon enough I guess. If that is against the rules of the forum, I can delete those posts if required.

The app indeed works as a MIDI loop, translating sustain pedal events into the correct algorithm to trigger pedal noises, at least for the Piano 88.

[maxpiano]

I'm sorry if any of my posts offended you or anybody else, that was not my intention. I wanted to help out users who have had similar but different questions in those topics by indicating that there is a way to solve their problem different from the solutions already offered. Some of the topics may be a bit older, but getting pedal noises without NTP is still a current and active issue for many in varying kinds of situations with varying rigs. Also, some posts had incorrect information that I could now correct for the benefit of all due to my digging into the subject. If the topic starters are not interested in their old topic, it will be buried in new forum posts soon enough I guess. If that is against the rules of the forum, I can delete those posts if required.

The app indeed works as a MIDI loop, translating sustain pedal events into the correct algorithm to trigger pedal noises, at least for the Piano 88.

If I understand how your app works, it should also be said that the algorithm will still be an approximation compared to the real detection of pedal position (half pedaling) and velocity (what NTP and in general continuous pedals allow and is clearly not possible with just an on off) and what your app does can also be implemented also using MIDI scripting plugins in apps like Mainstage or Camelot Pro (for people who use them or don't use an Android device)

Note: the physical alternative instead is to use a continuous sustain pedal attached to a secondary master keyboard (or just a MIDI Foot controller box) and sending it to the Nord as a continuous MIDI CC64.

[technlgyst]

Sure. In the end it's "just" specific MIDI messages that trigger the pedal noises, so any smartphone app or computer software that can send MIDI messages over CC64 has the potential to trigger the pedal noises. However, Nord doesn't simply use all values 0..127 on CC64 in a continuous and linear manner when pressing a pedal: there are some triggering values and some sound-producing value ranges. I implemented that in the app. Therefore I'm not sure what happens when you would use the physical alternative you purpose. I guess in that case a continuous foot controller triggers the sending of CC64, but in a linear way, so 0 when not depressed, 64 when depressed halfway, and 127 when fully depressed (and everything in between). That's not going to give you the pedal sound that Nord intended.

About the app being an approximation: it cannot detect pedal positions indeed, so it's still on and off. As an alternative, it uses your playing velocity to control the specific pedal sounds that are played in a sequence, corresponding to a higher or lower velocity pedal press. Fixed volume is also possible though.

[FZiegler]

Note: the physical alternative instead is to use a continuous sustain pedal attached to a secondary master keyboard (or just a MIDI Foot controller box) and sending it to the Nord as a continuous MIDI CC64.

That's exactly what's the background of my comment above: I got an ugly brutal noise when I used a continuous pedal from extern to create pedal noise - multiple full-velocity let-off sounds when I pressed the pedal.