Nord Stage vs Electro line

[cheopsnet]

Hi guys.

I am new to the Nord line and am looking for an all-around versatile keyboard:
Looking for >> Great Rhodes/Wurlitzer/Organ/Piano sounds; USB-Midi capability; Rotary speaker sim & other onboard FX (trem, ..); decent sample memory
Great if included, but not on my "need" list >> Synth sounds, physical organ drawbars; Arpeggiator; Pitch stick

I am quite confused by the specific capability of each keyboard, therefore your feedback would help me determine what I should get:

1 - Which Nord product seem to best fit the above, assuming no budget limitation?

2 - Any worth in waiting for new lines to come out (say an Electro 5 or Stage 3)?

3 - The main arguments in favor of a Electro4 over Stage2 are, per the related threads, lower cost and newer organ engine. As for the 2nd point, aren't the simulation/engines all updatable through the software? Also, what about the Electro sound engines (i.e. Rhodes/Wurlitzer/etc.), better on Electro 4 or Stage 2?

Thanks!!
Louis

[Leo Castro]

1 Nord Stage is the flagship.
2 if you can, wait for Electro 27 or Stage 18....
3 No. Sound engine or Leslie emulator are not updatable.
And both use the same library-quality sound.
Electro is monotimbral and Stage 6 part multitimbral.
Electro does not have pitch bend, modulation pitch, arpegiator.
Stage's memory is bigger than Electro.
Now you have a start point!

[SonicVI]

If budget is not a concern then it's a no-brainer. The Stage 2 does everything the Electro 4 does and SO MUCH more. It's almost like have 2 Electros in one keyboard plus a synth and more versatile effects.

[anotherscott]

The only advantage of the E4 over the NS2 is the updated organ engine and, if you get the 4D, physical drawbars. If you must have drawbars you can add them with the drawbar accessory from http://www.oceanbeachdigital.com and it's actually better because you ALSO get to keep the lights that show you exactly what settings are in use by a preset. And if you send organ to its own output jack on the NS2 and put a Neo Ventilator pedal on that output, I'd say the organ on the NS2 is then at least as good if not better than the E4D as well. (You did say budget not an issue...)

In addition to the NS2 advantages listed above, it has a synth engine, aftertouch, and external MIDI control (meaning its easy to integrate additional sounds from another sound source, like an iPad for example). It also gives you a more sophisticated implementation of the piano string resonance, and the ability to hook up a triple pedal.

FInally, it's never ideal to play organ from a weighted piano action, but if you must, the NS2 HA models are much better for that than the Electro HP.

[analogika]

Hi Cheopsnet,

Just a few more notes to confuse your brain here:

First off, regarding Leo Castro's comments:

1) Nord Stage 2 is the current flagship
2) Leo is being facetious here; as others have said in this forum, if you're always waiting for a newer version to come out, you'll never have an instrument to play. Take a few minutes to research used Nord values on eBay (search on COMPLETED sales in order to determine true market value -- asking price does not always indicate market value, but someone's wishful thinking) and you will quickly discover that a) most Nord owners never sell, and b) when they do they get a much higher return than folks who've bought something from the big Japanese triumvirate. Nords hold value really really well. The point is that one can purchase now and play the instrument for a good long while and not lose one's shirt when selling in order to upgrade to a newer model.
3) this is not true. You are correct that those things are updatable via OS; indeed they WERE updated for the C2 via OS release. However, because the processing demands of the NS2 are much higher, however, there is insufficient room on that instrument to accommodate those updates.

I also take exception with SonicVI's comment that having an NS2 is "almost like have 2 Electros..." Truth is, an NS2 has more sound-producing power than half a dozen Electros! As Leo said, the Electro is monotimbral. The Stage 2 has six onboard sound engines all of which can be addressed at once across 1/2/3 zones. PLUS two External Sections for addressing external hard or soft devices. On a "bang-for-your-buck" basis, the NS2 kicks serious booty.

Anotherscott begins with a typo, should be NE4, not NE3. And there are some slight misconceptions here. The NS2 has Nord's 3rd Generation B3 model. The NE4 models have the same 3rd Generation B3 model except that some very slight tweaks were done to key click and bounce. The difference is not huge and would probably escape the notice of anyone who is not a seriously hardcore B# player. The much bigger difference is in the rotary speaker features. The NE4 models have two versions of the Leslie 122, a "regular" and a close mic version; these were developed some extended time after the release of the NS2, which has a different Leslie (147?) model. Again, the NS2 is not capable of loading these newer features due to memory/processing limitations.

The real key comes down to YOUR musical needs. Some people are perfectly happy with having an instrument which is capable of handling rhodes/wurly/grand/upright/clav/harpsi/sample/organ duties one at a time, without layers or splits or possibility of creating complex palettes of sound. Some people like to keep it simple and focus on what their fingers are doing instead to what the instrument is doing. Others have performance demands which include splits and layers, which include creating complex palettes of sound. Or they want an open-ended design so that as their musical needs may change and grow, the instrument can accommodate as needed. You will need to decide for yourself what is best for you.

For me, the NS2 has not only changed the way I play, it has changed the thought process behind my playing. Functions which were previously available to me only through painstaking hours of programming on a Motif platform were suddenly possible so quickly and easily that they could be programmed with one hand live during a gig while the other hand is still playing. And it has made things that were previously impossible suddenly simple.

Those are my three or four cents...

Bless,

Pablo

[Leo Castro]

Thank you Pablo for correct my wrong points. I'M an Electro 4d user...

[Marlowes]

Hej!

Weight can also be an issue ... I have started leaving my Stage 2 at home for rehearsals, and only bring my cute little NLA1 + my MacBook Pro with some great VSTs ...
Sometimes I miss my NE3HP.
For cowboy/biker gigs I only need like 5 different sounds/programs.

"Less is more ..." (BB King, or was it sir Paul?)

/Amicalement
Michael in Scania

[Leo Castro]

That´s true! I remember my Yamaha S80 old days....

[AlQuinn]

Hi Cheopsnet,

Just a few more notes to confuse your brain here:

First off, regarding Leo Castro's comments:

1) Nord Stage 2 is the current flagship
2) Leo is being facetious here; as others have said in this forum, if you're always waiting for a newer version to come out, you'll never have an instrument to play. Take a few minutes to research used Nord values on eBay (search on COMPLETED sales in order to determine true market value -- asking price does not always indicate market value, but someone's wishful thinking) and you will quickly discover that a) most Nord owners never sell, and b) when they do they get a much higher return than folks who've bought something from the big Japanese triumvirate. Nords hold value really really well. The point is that one can purchase now and play the instrument for a good long while and not lose one's shirt when selling in order to upgrade to a newer model.
3) this is not true. You are correct that those things are updatable via OS; indeed they WERE updated for the C2 via OS release. However, because the processing demands of the NS2 are much higher, however, there is insufficient room on that instrument to accommodate those updates.

I also take exception with SonicVI's comment that having an NS2 is "almost like have 2 Electros..." Truth is, an NS2 has more sound-producing power than half a dozen Electros! As Leo said, the Electro is monotimbral. The Stage 2 has six onboard sound engines all of which can be addressed at once across 1/2/3 zones. PLUS two External Sections for addressing external hard or soft devices. On a "bang-for-your-buck" basis, the NS2 kicks serious booty.

Anotherscott begins with a typo, should be NE4, not NE3. And there are some slight misconceptions here. The NS2 has Nord's 3rd Generation B3 model. The NE4 models have the same 3rd Generation B3 model except that some very slight tweaks were done to key click and bounce. The difference is not huge and would probably escape the notice of anyone who is not a seriously hardcore B# player. The much bigger difference is in the rotary speaker features. The NE4 models have two versions of the Leslie 122, a "regular" and a close mic version; these were developed some extended time after the release of the NS2, which has a different Leslie (147?) model. Again, the NS2 is not capable of loading these newer features due to memory/processing limitations.

The real key comes down to YOUR musical needs. Some people are perfectly happy with having an instrument which is capable of handling rhodes/wurly/grand/upright/clav/harpsi/sample/organ duties one at a time, without layers or splits or possibility of creating complex palettes of sound. Some people like to keep it simple and focus on what their fingers are doing instead to what the instrument is doing. Others have performance demands which include splits and layers, which include creating complex palettes of sound. Or they want an open-ended design so that as their musical needs may change and grow, the instrument can accommodate as needed. You will need to decide for yourself what is best for you.

For me, the NS2 has not only changed the way I play, it has changed the thought process behind my playing. Functions which were previously available to me only through painstaking hours of programming on a Motif platform were suddenly possible so quickly and easily that they could be programmed with one hand live during a gig while the other hand is still playing. And it has made things that were previously impossible suddenly simple.

Those are my three or four cents...

Bless,

Pablo

I own a Stage 2 HA 88 and Electro 4D. Pablo's comments sound spot on to me.

However, I'd like to add that I've played the two keyboards side by side and believe the Stage 2 pianos sound better than the Electro's. For one, the Electro's memory is not large enough to load the best piano samples (i.e., the XL size). Additionally, the Electro 4D supports Generation 1 string resonance while the Stage 2 supports Generation 2 string resonance -- I would love a better explanation of this difference as the Nord's explanation on their website doesn't do it for me. And lastly, the action is different, but I've convinced myself that I can hear past the effect caused by this difference.

Question for Pablo: do you also believe that the acoustic pianos sound better on the NS2 compared to the Electro 4D?

P.S. Not sure if it's in my imagination but I find the Electro 4D acoustic pianos more pleasing and playable since the recent 1.18 firmware update. Is this possible?

[AlQuinn]

Hi Al,

Gen 1 is operative when the sustain pedal is depressed (out of Xanax) and the dampers are lifted from the entire harp. Gen 2 does not involve the sustped, only the notes which one is holding. Gen 2 is vastly more complex and therefore memory-consuming.

The update history notes for the NE4 do indicate some things relating to pianos, so perhaps this is what your ears are hearing.

As far as what sounds better on what, I think that there is subtle nuance involved, and that subtle nuance will almost always be completely lost in a live gig setting. Also, one could place three Steinways (or name your brand) side by side on a stage and perhaps discern subtle differences. It's all I can do to actually play the darn thing in a musically meaningful way, so I don't spend much time sweating the small stuff. They all sound pretty darn good to me.

Bless,

Pablo