Nord User Forum

[christianjwagner]

Hello together,
I am currently updating my stage setup by using an external Keytar (Roland AX-1) and a CME Wireless MIDI Transmitter to control my NS3 Compact for ~90% of my songs.
While I managed to setup the Program Change messages to call up Programs and use my Keytar to play everything on global channel 1, I couldn’t manage yet to control Leslie of the organ section, ideally with the expression tab of the Roland (sends modulation messages). If not possible, any other way would do.
Has anyone an idea on how to realize this.
Bad thing is that the AX1 is not the most intuitive Keytar in terms of programming, and the NS3 isn’t a legend either in terms of MIDI.
Help would be appreciated.

[maxpiano]

You basically have 2 ways:

1) send the MIDI CCs associated to the Rotary controls (see the list in NS3 manual appendix)

2) use the Morph and assign the ModWheel to the Rotary speed, then send CC #1 (MW) from the ExtKeyb

[christianjwagner]

Hi Maxpiano,
thanks for your answer so early this morning. Tried it out already, here is my feedback:

to 1) unfortunately, the Roland AX-1 cannot assign dedicated CC messages, e.g. to a switch. The only "customisable" options are the "modulation wheel" (= expression bar that you squeeze on the neck of the Keytar) and a data entry wheel (turning knob, quite stiff, more for volume control).

to 2) yes, it worked! Assign Wheel Morph to Rotator speed -> done. However, I found out that the Leslie behaviour is different and less smooth, when using a continuous (0-127) controller instead of a switch. While the Leslie rotor accelerates and decelerates slowly by itself with a dedicated button, it "jumps" quite harshly from slow to fast and back when using the expression bar on the Roland (there is not much "play" between values 0 and 127 so the value cannot be controlled so smoothly).

Well, in any case better than nothing, so thanks a lot for your help!

[maxpiano]

Hi Maxpiano,
thanks for your answer so early this morning.

Well your question was even earlier

to 2) yes, it worked! Assign Wheel Morph to Rotator speed -> done. However, I found out that the Leslie behaviour is different and less smooth, when using a continuous (0-127) controller instead of a switch. While the Leslie rotor accelerates and decelerates slowly by itself with a dedicated button, it "jumps" quite harshly from slow to fast and back when using the expression bar on the Roland (there is not much "play" between values 0 and 127 so the value cannot be controlled so smoothly).

Actually with the Morph you should be able to control the Leslie speed very precisely (try that with the NS2 own ModWheel) and even obtain intermediate speeds that are not possible with the switches, on the other hand you lose the automatic acceleration/deceleration (yes) so you have to control that manually. Of course it is a different behaviour but I guess you can get used to that also on the keytar expression bar.

About the (1), given the limitations of the Roland AX-1 there is of course a 3rd alternative that implies using some MIDI message transformation (using a computer or a specific boxes like the ones from MidiSolutions or Bome), but I guess you already thought about that.

[christianjwagner]

Mille grazie. Intersting insights, regarding Leslie speed. Again, the only downside is that with that "Expression Bar" of the AX-1, a detailed play is not really possible. You squeeze it a litte - Bamm, 127 full value. I guess it was most probably designed for things like aftertouch vibrato where the nuances between 0 and 127 don't play such an important role.
Your tip with some MIDI msg transformation is also interesting. I could imagine to pimp up a Teensy with MIDI in and out and some basic programming (e.g. -> transpose Sustain message to Leslie on/off message). However, here I try to keep things as simple as possible, more elements in the chain mean more possible problems. I guess I can live with the abovementioned solution.

PS: I just remember after writing this answer: You can set the Sustain Pedal to work in parallel as a Leslie On/Off Switch in the NS3. As the AX1 has a sustain button -> Problem solved! Sometimes the simple solutions are straightforward.

[maxpiano]

PS: I just remember after writing this answer: You can set the Sustain Pedal to work in parallel as a Leslie On/Off Switch in the NS3. As the AX1 has a sustain button -> Problem solved! Sometimes the simple solutions are straightforward.

Well, I am afraid that setting works only with the NS2 own sustain pedal, but not when receiving a CC 64, however I'd be happy to be wrong

[Elias]

What about a the rotor pedal connector on your S3C? This would require 0 additional MIDI configuration. Just a switch pedal (I recommend Boss FS-5U), and long enough cable.

[Mr_-G-]

... the only downside is that with that "Expression Bar" of the AX-1, a detailed play is not really possible. You squeeze it a litte - Bamm, 127 full value.

Looking at the AX manual page 22, I wonder if there is a setting for this:

"What happens now depends on the Modulation assign-
ment of the Tone you are using. (This needs to be speci-
fied using the “AX-Synth Editor” software.)
In most cases, pressing this bar generates a vibrato
effect. If you select a SuperNATURAL Tone (VIOLIN~
TROMBONE), however, it acts as “Dynamics” function."

I wonder what "Dynamics" means in that context.
You could investigate a bit what kind of MIDI messages come out of the synth.
Using a MIDI monitor program check whether it is a 0-127 switch or there are some intermediate values as well?

[christianjwagner]

Thanks all for your contributions.
@Elias: I definitely am looking for a solution without pedals. I'll be alternating between my (stationary) NS3 and other areas of the stage, so I would need to re-place the pedal wherever I'll be.
@maxpiano: Would need to check out if I was wrong (Sustain Pedal CC vs. "actual pedal press") -> seems you're right.
@Mr.G: I have an AX-1, not an AX-Synth you are referring to (where things would be different I guess).

[Mr_-G-]

I see, AX-1... but it also has some parameters to control this (funnily also page 22 of the AX-1 manual!) parameter 19 and 20 seem to control expression level to modulation and after touch respectively. I am (wildly) guessing that parameter 19 sets it to "on-off" and 20 to "0-127" type of function? Maybe worth trying?