How to level program volumes

[BassJo]

Hi,

I play in coverbands and use a specific program for almost every song. There are however volume differences between the different programs. I try to level them as good as i can with my headphone at home, but playing a gig i usually get the critic from sound ebgineers that my volumes differ (and they have more work to do
What are your methods for leveling volumes of programs? Should i use a DAW for instance?
Thanks in advance for thinking with me!

[Wietze]

I have also for every song a specific program. (Nord Electro 5D)
I had the same problem. But with the "gain knob' you can give every program his own volume.
Further I use the expression pedal as a volume pedal. I am happy!

[LewTheKeysGuy]

A sound engineer moaning about doing more work is nothing new, but saddening, because it's a craft and that's what a sound engineer is there to do, mix, enhance and get a decent sound to the P.A and recording systems, otherwise, why bother.

If you want to get a constant volume across your various programs, put them through a dBU meter plugin on a computer before going to a gig, you can then adjust each program to match unity mixes across your programs.

lew

[WannitBBBad]

I think it depends on whether you are striving to always play at the same volume and let the sound engineer do all the work (and have to know for every song what should be up or down in the mix), or whether you want to be in control of the dynamics and the sound engineer just make sure you're in the mix. Communication ends up being the key for conveying your expectations and understanding theirs. I personally like controlling the dynamics on my end. Good luck

[BassJo]

Hi there,

thanks for replying. I fully agree that it is the job of the sound engineer, and i wont say the're moaning (mostly ), but what the laze ones do is put a compressor on the synth and every dynamic is gone. That i don't like. I also want to be in charge of my dynamics (i purposely program volume differences on pads, horns, piano's, organs etc).
But sometimes a program in its whole is louder than another one. That i want to level out. So that the piano on one program is as load as the piano on another program.

Lew, you suggested a dBU plugin, can you give an example of one and how you use it?

[WannitBBBad]

...But sometimes a program in its whole is louder than another one. That i want to level out. So that the piano on one program is as load as the piano on another program...

Just my personal preference, as the Grand and Upright pianos are really close in volume for the most part, I start with the piano first in a Program setting the level at -2 db (you pick where you want it). Setting it back a little allows for some flexibility when you want the organ or synths a little louder, but ensures you're getting the same piano volume with the master set at a certain level. I then use the master and/or preset morphs on the Control Pedal or Mod Wheel to take care of the rest. For example, on one program where I move from the Rhodes to the Grand being the dominant instrument, I use the Mod Wheel to turn one up and the other one down so the center position with both instruments is about the same volume as the Grand by itself or the Rhodes by itself, while the B3 and Pads are covered by the Control Pedal. Take care.

[fieldflower]

You stare the sound guy in the eye and say with Your best Hades voice: "So it was YOU that KILLED the song!!"

Jokes aside - level the programs the best You can, keep the dynamics You want to be there.
I'd tweak through speakers as headphones are a little too... good...
Actually rather tweak at band rehearsals where the sounds have to sound right in the mix.

But also speak with the sound guy pre-gig so they know what they should level and what dynamics to keep. He/she may ignore it later and smear everything with a compressor, but then at least You did Your best.

[Nordmutt2]

This is a topic that has bugged me for years - sound engineers and bandmates alike will never understand the role of a keyboard player.
Our job is very different from song to song. (Keep in mind, I do try to have my patches at a reasonably close level to begin)

If I am padding chords with a soft organ with 2-3 notes, or a horn line with 1 note at a time, or a piano part with 8-10 notes being played - how can they all be the same volume?
If I make the piano sound and organ patch identical volumes, but my piano part has A lot more notes being played at once, it is going to be louder.
The organ changes when I pull out more drawbars.
My role in each song changes. If we cover a Billy Joel song verses just a country ballad - the Piano has a different prominence.
What if I play a big synth patch with 2 hands - BAMM! Who can set the volume compared to a little horn line in the upper register.
Don't get me started on original music - the sound guy is going to decide where I should fit in the mix? HA

Sorry to ramble on. We need to hear ourselves in the context of the mix and adjust accordingly all night.
In a perfect world - the bass player and drummer have one level all night. HA! When they turn up or hit harder, my piano can't compete!
Sorry - sound man - it's not that easy!

[analogika]

A sound engineer moaning about doing more work is nothing new, but saddening, because it's a craft and that's what a sound engineer is there to do, mix, enhance and get a decent sound to the P.A and recording systems, otherwise, why bother.

The sound engineer’s job is to make the whole band sound great out front.

If the keyboard guy or a guitar guy with a pedal board doesn’t have his levels under control, then his job is going to be made that much harder/impossible, because he’s got two vocalists and a horn section to balance, and if a singer gets out front to work with the audience, then any blaring synth hit that’s 6 dB too loud is just going to get the keyboard turned down until it’s no longer annoying.

Either that, or the keyboard is just going to get slammed into a limiter, which means that rather than sounds being at the RIGHT level, they’re all going to be at the SAME level, which is absolutely not what you want.

In addition, if you’re working with layers or splits, and the piano is just right, but the horn part takes a quarter inch off everyone’s scalp, there is no way a sound engineer can fix it.

Getting your levels straight is part of the keyboard player's job. If he fails, the sound engineer can save him a bit some of the time — but only if he has the time.

(FWIW, first major cover band job I had, it took me about two weeks to get the sounds down. About six months to get the levels straight — constant working with the FoH guys, who’d often be nice enough to make a note when something stuck out or they had to fix the mix.)

[BassJo]

I am 100% agree with guys mentioned all methods.

( Some of soundengeneers recommended me to use Vst Effect Plugin "K -Meter " where enabling RMS meter gives you a chance to measure an “average” signal strength.
Using keyboard signal + backing track in your DAW will give you "average" picture what it should be on stage .
And of course final touches should be made only whilst performing which takes time to get it levelled in different clubs and PA.