Grand Piano sounds disappoints

[Moongel88]

Hi Stefanie,

You are absolutely right, the piano samples are awful live, that's been my experience. I'm a professional musician who does a wide range of gigs/work including studio sessions. I've owned Roland, Yamaha, Casio and Technics stage pianos and I can tell you that every one of them has a more solid piano sample that sounds better through a big rig, or my Yamaha Stagepass 500 PA (which I use for church work) or through my Marshel keyboard amp (the only specific keyboard amp they ever made and it's brilliant). Be it mono or stereo they all sound far better, more real and cut through so much better.

I bought the Nord Stage 3, basically I fell for the pressure of "you need to get yourself a Nord Stage" and of course the amazing, glossy sounding YouTube promo videos and what a mistake, the pianos, all of them and I've done everything I can, sound bad. Everything else, organs, rhodes and synth section sounds great BUT I want a dam good piano.

What's even more embarrassing is the fact that I also own a 20 years old Technics SX P30 and through any kind of amp at all or PA where a live gig is concerned with just a singer or with a state of the art large rig in a big venue with a loud band the Technics is brilliant. I've had a couple of musician friends actually say they preferred the Technics.

Maybe in a recording studio it's a totally different matter and I'm sure it is but live it's too airy fairy, too weak, limp, there's no "presence" in the sound, doesn't cut through without having to be turned up loud, I could go on and on. From a technical point of view the way Nord sampling is done is technically better than all the other makes but what the other makes do is get their pianos to work better in live situations and through various equipment. Nord is pure and sounds fine through a good set of headphones but crap outside of that.

The best gigging piano sound and keys action is to be found on the Yamaha CP4 and that is what I will be buying, I'm getting rid on the Stage 3!!!

NOW - Here is another guy talking about Nord on another forum and I get everything he says and I'm just so sorry I didn't see this before I spend a fortune on the Stage 3. I was just so disappointed in the Nord piano that I started looking around at some of the forums and found this. DISASTER. Here is what he says -

Ok, let me first give you some background on me a touch. I own the real deals as far as a 1971 Fender Rhodes Mark I, a Hohner Clavinet D6, a 1967 Wurlitzer 140B, and several Vintage synths, too many to list, but ALL the favorites and popular ones from MiniMoogs, to P5's to OBXA's the list goes on.

As far as actual real grand piano and Hammond B3 Organ(s) I do not own one, BUT have used and recorded with MANY in the past and am around them daily. And FYI I cop'ed all my instruments in mint condition, and keep them that way scaled, calibrated, tuned, etc.. regularly.

So that is my "real deal" background and knowledge/usage, etc... Now I also own all of the above in the best plug in form that I could find through-out the years. From NI to Vienna Instruments to them all.

Basically what the above did is set the tone for you about me. I know what real is, and I know what so far the best "imitating the real" is in my experience SO FAR.

As far as my equipment and usual work, I am all about the studio and recording. I do not purchase for "gig'ing".. When I gig I am mainly vocals, not playing instruments, as I leave that for the "band" I hired to play and bring their own. So my studio purchases are not meant to be gig'ed with. And I am pointing this out because I care not about gear that is "good for gig'ing" but could sound better in reality.

Which brings me to my main point of question.... In my quest, I have been dying to get the absolute best thing (besides the real thing) for Piano, Rhodes Keys, Clavinet and Organ. All in one board to make it easy to fire up and play. I do not/did not expect it to be as good as the real thing, BUT since it is hardware I was/would be expecting it to be better than the absolute best Virtual Instrument Plug In I have come across (for now that is Vienna Instruments FYI). And thats it.

So across the board my colleagues and several threads on here and other music forums ALL suggest and say the Nord Keyboards are bar none THE BEST. I was excited ! I waited for that Stage 2 to come out and be updated, work the bugs out, etc.. I went down to play it, and well....... IS IT JUST ME (lol) or is it really not that great ? I admit the Rhodes Keys were cool, they were EQUAL to the best Rhodes plug in I heard, BUT not better, and even further off from the real thing. The Clavinet was horrible to me. NI Completes Clav sounds way more real. And don't even compare it to the real thing then. Next, the piano was a big let down too. My first thing to do to test any piano is to sit down and hit the highest key several times and the lowest key several times. A GOOD piano has that wood knock in the high registers and, hard to explain, but just sounds honest and real. A GOOD pianos lowest note won't wash out and sound like its under water, it just will be super low bassy like and NOT fall apart but have that overly low cycle separated sound without sounding fake.

Well, the Nords sounded like POOOO ! For real. Absolutely fake IMO. Not even close to the real deal and honestly, way worse than Vienna Instruments Pianos. There was a Roland Piano there that I tested next that was KILLING everything I heard ever except the real deal, and THATS what I expected the Nord to sound like from all the hype everyone gives it. And I played it through the same monitors as what I was playing the Nord through. So all this points to, Why is there all this hype about the Nords ? That don't sound that great.

Then it hit me.... I can see these being the best thing for live performances for sure. They sound the best for what you have instantly at your fingertips out of anything else yes. BUT for studio work, really, they are not all that.

Now, was I doing something wrong ? Am I missing something ? Or is it just the gig'ing musician thing and actually everyone that recommends them does know they are not the best you can do, BUT they are the best for live preforming on stage ?

Can anyone shed some light ? Cause I really still want to find what I am looking for - which is a good medium between the real deal (of those 4 instruments) and the Plug Ins. SO I would love it to be the Nord, and I wanted it to be, but damn, Plug Ins are a better bet than that thing. Oh, and the synth section was not really all that either. Very cheesy sounding IMO. But due to my synth collection, I was not really worried about the synth section, I just wanted the "keys" to live up to their hype.

[blizz]

In order for the NORD piano samples to sound exquisite one needs a high-end amplification system which is linear. A normal keyboard amp will not do the job properly, because of the detailed sound characteristics of the XL samples.

[danrv]

In order for the NORD piano samples to sound exquisite one needs a high-end amplification system which is linear. A normal keyboard amp will not do the job properly, because of the detailed sound characteristics of the XL samples.

True.
Problem is that most people won’t want to spend the £1300 per speaker to achieve that. I’ve settled for a decent mid level system (Yamaha DXR10 x2) and have EQ’d the Silver Grand XL accordingly.
I think I’d rather get a stage piano with a more amp friendly piano sound than spend that kind of money on amplification.

[baekgaard]

Just out of curiosity: why did this almost 3 year old thread suddenly wake up again?

Of course, we can keep on discussing Nord Piano samples forever I am just wondering what brought this particular old thread back to live (and no, I don't think it was bliss' answer; it popped up before that appeared here in my view)?

EDIT: Suddenly, Moongel88's post became visible in my browser on another machine, which it definitely wasn't earlier on. Probably some forum mystery... or something else pushed it on top of the list -- whatever

Anyway, to address Moongel88's points: Yes, I guess many of use are gigging musicians. And welcome to the forum, by the way, although I guess this may be your first and only post, since you're basically just here to tell us you're leaving again?

For me, the Nord is just a tool, albeit a nice one that I enjoy playing. I happen to think many of the pianos sound gorgeous also in my in-ears when playing live, and it inspires me to be creative in how I express myself through music.

I've been playing Rolands and Yamahas before, but got somewhat tired not only of carrying the weight but also their quite characteristic and somewhat sterile sound, and I like the ability Nord offer to drastically change to a completely different piano sound, and sometimes play an upright that just sits well in the mix. I knew how Nord sounded before I got the Stage 3, since I've been playing an Electro 3 for some 10 years on top of my other keyboards.

But it's good that there is variety and we can all buy what we like. If you don't like the Nord piano sounds (which are not new, by the way), just buy something else you like better

[stringtapper]

Although I am new to Nords with the NS3, I do like the piano sounds.

However, once you have played one of the large piano sample libraries like those that come with Komplete it can be very hard to "un-hear" them. The depth and dimension you get from something like the Una Corda instrument is well beyond what the Nord is capable of with its limited sample space.

I am considering switching all of my acoustic piano sounds to Kontakt exclusively at this point.

[danrv]

Just out of curiosity: why did this almost 3 year old thread suddenly wake up again?

Sorry...probably me then. Just refreshing my ongoing quest to accomplish optimum Nord piano monitoring. I’m a lot further on now than I was a couple of years ago. Possibly to the point of actually being satisfied

[baekgaard]

Just out of curiosity: why did this almost 3 year old thread suddenly wake up again?

Sorry...probably me then. Just refreshing my ongoing quest to accomplish optimum Nord piano monitoring. I’m a lot further on now than I was a couple of years ago. Possibly to the point of actually being satisfied

All is cool! I just wondered since it popped to the top without any new posts initially...

But glad you're approaching being satisfied

[cphollis]

Nord pianos samples are just that -- samples. No processing or other juju applied, unless you add effects yourself. They are very, very accurate.

It never ceases to amaze me that people will splurge $3000 on a great keyboard, and then complain that they don't like the sound through low-end amplification. Well, an expensive grand piano would sound pretty bad through low-end amplification as well. I wouldn't blame the piano, though.

Match the Nord pianos with decent amplification, and you'll be a lot happier AND understand what all the fuss is about.

[Fallboard]

Nord pianos samples are just that -- samples. No processing or other juju applied, unless you add effects yourself. They are very, very accurate.

It never ceases to amaze me that people will splurge $3000 on a great keyboard, and then complain that they don't like the sound through low-end amplification. Well, an expensive grand piano would sound pretty bad through low-end amplification as well. I wouldn't blame the piano, though.

Match the Nord pianos with decent amplification, and you'll be a lot happier AND understand what all the fuss is about.

This is the big reason I was mystified at first. The piano samples sounded like crap during our practice, but great when we cut the mix. I was using a dinky little Roland Busking amp (KC-110). I just upgraded to a Center Point Spacestation V3 from Aspen Pittman and it's a huge improvement. But as said above, you've got to add your own FX. I wonder how Roland's "SuperNATURAL" piano samples sound like with no Compression, no EQ, no Reverb, etc

[baekgaard]

I wonder how Roland's "SuperNATURAL" piano samples sound like with no Compression, no EQ, no Reverb, etc

Definitely more 'super' than natural...