Backup time

[cphollis]

Well, as requested I did a full backup on my slowest, oldest Mac device (2016) but a flash drive. Plugged in the USB, hit "backup". About one minute, thirty seconds to create a brand new 2.54 GB image, so a full backup. I would guess data was moving at about ~30-35 MB/sec, gated by my older computer and storage. On a new M1, it would likely be under a minute.

[Valpurgis]

See my post, you are confused by the difference between initial/virgin backup and the ones after that. Also check whats written about this here: https://www.soundtech.co.uk/music-retai ... r-software

«Back Up on the other hand will back up the entire keyboard and all its contents in one big file. This will create the largest file out of the three back up methods and so will take the longest time to do. A fully loaded Stage 3 could take up to an hour to do a first time back-up - but this will be quicker on subsequent back-ups as we'll explain in a moment.»

[cphollis]

See my post, you are confused by the difference between initial/virgin backup and the ones after that. Also check whats written about this here: https://www.soundtech.co.uk/music-retai ... r-software

«Back Up on the other hand will back up the entire keyboard and all its contents in one big file. This will create the largest file out of the three back up methods and so will take the longest time to do. A fully loaded Stage 3 could take up to an hour to do a first time back-up - but this will be quicker on subsequent back-ups as we'll explain in a moment.»

You are confused on how computers and backups work.

If I have a keyboard device with 2.48 GB in total storage capacity, and I back up its entire contents creating a 2.48 GB disk image, this is called a "full backup" as it contains all the files and other metadata required to restore the backup up object to its initial state. On a reasonably fast computer, using the USB 2 protocol, this can take about a minute as data will be transferred at ~40MB/sec, maybe a bit faster if the storage can do fast writes.

Storage write speed is the most important variable here, and is highly variable depending whether it's modern flash or ancient rotating rust.

Also, FY, an "incremental backup" is a copy of what has changed since the last full or incremental backup. That means if no data has changed, there is nothing to back up. Using your incorrect explanation, why is Backup Manager creating 2.48 GB backup objects when no data has changed?

Answer: when it's a full backup

If you don't believe me, please get your hands on a modern computer, and please give it a try. It does not take "hours" unless you have a crippled setup.

[ajstan]

I ran this test myself and noticed that when the status bar shows "Backing up Piano partition (cached)", the system creates a new 2GB+ in less than two minutes, but if I use a drive that has never been connected to the computer, I do not get the "cached" message (the status bar just reads "Backing up Piano partition") and creating the new file takes over an hour. After the first backup to the new drive, I get the "cached" message on subsequent backups and can create completely new 2GB+ full backups in under two minutes.

My guess would be that the quick new file creation has something to do with cache, and that the computer is just copying data that already exists within its file system to the new file and is not being transferred from the Nord to the computer via USB.

[Valpurgis]

Sorry cphollis to have triigered bad feelings. But if you had taken the time to read my link you would have learned that what ajstan also confirm is correct:
« Nord Sound Manager also uses a cache system to speed things up. Files that have already been “seen” by Nord Sound Manager, i.e. downloaded or uploaded once, are placed in the cache folder. This means that when creating a backup next time, those do not need to be uploaded from the instrument, but can be copied from the cache instead saving a lot of time.»
Been introduced to the IBM PC in 1982 I feel I have used more than enough time on «modern computers» during my life in the computer and communication support to upgrade my Windows laptop from 2017 and Mac Mini from 2019

[cphollis]

Respectfully disagree. I saw ~35-42MB/sec going over the wire from the keyboard to the computer during the entire backup event. Regardless of how anything thinks it might work, this means there is no effective caching happening on the computer side. Unless anyone can convince me that watching 2.48 GB of data being moved over the wire and resulting in a 2.48 GB object being created might be something else? You are welcome to try this for yourself.

I used to do large scale IT architectures, systems, etc for some big names. I learned that people will tell you one thing, but it always helps to check the important bits. Transfer rates, storage speeds, supposed caching and compression effects, etc. all of that can become important when there's a lot of data involved and not a lot of time.

[Valpurgis]

To much prestige involved, relax and rethink. Its simply a question about if the samples in the keyboard are changed since the last backup. Backup time is directly related to how many of the samples are new related to the previous backup. The transfer rate between the keyboard and computer is controlled by the process between the Nord Sound Manager and NS3 firmware. Its not a raw memory dump depending on the capacity of the transmission channel, and the transferred volume is related to whats really needed to download compared to changes in samples. I rest my case.

[WannitBBBad]

I ran this test myself and noticed that when the status bar shows "Backing up Piano partition (cached)", the system creates a new 2GB+ in less than two minutes, but if I use a drive that has never been connected to the computer, I do not get the "cached" message (the status bar just reads "Backing up Piano partition") and creating the new file takes over an hour. After the first backup to the new drive, I get the "cached" message on subsequent backups and can create completely new 2GB+ full backups in under two minutes...

Exact same results here using two laptops, both with SSDs and one which I haven't ever used for backing up my NS3. I'm not sure where the cache file exists or what it might be named, as a search on the laptop that only took about 2 minutes with the "cached" message didn't have another ns3b backup file on it. For the other laptop without the "cached" message, Nord Sound Manager estimated the time at 71 minutes.

[Valpurgis]

There is no hidden cache file. The samples are all in the NSM backup file which always are about 2.5Gb. Your initial backup downloads all samples from the NS3 and takes about 1 hour. The next backup just download changes in samples since the previous. If no samples are added or substituted the backup takes about 1 minute. Program, song and configuration takes a tiny part of the backup. A backup file can be exported to any other computer to restore to another NS3 since it contains a copy of everything.

PS The assumption that a backup file always is about 2.5Gb reflects a Nord Stage 3 fully loaded with samples.

[WannitBBBad]

There is no hidden cache file. The samples are all in the NSM backup file which always are about 2.5Gb. Your initial backup downloads all samples from the NS3 and takes about 1 hour. The next backup just download changes in samples since the previous. If no samples are added or substituted the backup takes about 1 minute. Program, song and configuration takes a tiny part of the backup. A backup file can be exported to any other computer to restore to another NS3 since it contains a copy of everything.

PS The assumption that a backup file always is about 2.5Gb reflects a Nord Stage 3 fully loaded with samples.

What you state makes sense, however NSM indicated the pianos were cached even though no other ns3b backup existed on my laptop when I created my backup yesterday. The laptop has been used extensively to upload and download individual pianos in the past.

UPDATE: I deleted the backup file on the second laptop that wasn't ever used to make a backup until yesterday (took over an hour). I deleted the file from my recycle bin (trash folder), restarted my laptop, and then opened Nord Sound Manager to make a new backup. The backup message included "cached" and the new (and only) backup file took about 2 minutes to create.