Nord User Forum

[mixaudio]

Hello everyone, I got a Nord Grand earlier this year. Very happy with piano samples and overall quality/ease of use. Still missing certain layering/splitting options but nothing's perfect and I can live with what's offered in the Grand.

Is there a way to customize or "import" new velocity curves that could bring a more realistic dynamic expression from the piano sounds?

I can't "adjust" to any of the 3 velocity curves offered by the Grand. Nord's piano samples are superb! However, the dynamics that these 3 "keybed touch" settings provide don't feel well connected with the piano samples and its hard to craft an expressive piano performance from that point, despite the beauty of the piano samples.

First, I'd never use "Light".

"Medium" can be too sensitive and "jumpy" on the dynamics. Playing consistently with medium strength will suddenly (or sometimes constantly) trigger much brighter/louder notes. Those may be notes that are played with just a slightly higher downward force. It feels unnatural.

If seen as a curve, it feels like this:



Likewise, the "Heavy" setting gives me the feel of an even more pronounced curve like this maybe:



Playing with a consistent medium strength, the Heavy setting will produce a low and dull sound for most notes, requiring lots of downward force to get louder/brighter sounds. So IMHO, there's a big "gap" of dynamic range that gets sort of lost or that becomes difficult to use. So I'm having to stick with "Medium" mostly.

I've owned Kawai's MP7 and MP5 and they offered more realistic velocity curves and dynamic response. Even when the samples are not as superior as Nord's, the musical expression and connection with the piano samples felt more realistic. The Heavy or Heavy+ curves on the MP7 felt kind of like this:



Your thoughts will be very appreciated.

I wish that you're all staying safe and healthy.

[Mr_-G-]

Hi, I think the only options are:
1. Process the velocity data outside the instrument via MIDI, setting LOCAL OFF and creating a MIDI loop. That might introduce some tiny latency depending on efficiency of the MIDI processing box or program. Here are some ideas something you could play with:
nord-piano-grand-forum-f10/velocity-tool-for-the-nord-piano-t5523.html
2. Use a different controller where you can fine tune the velocity response, but that defeats the purpose of buying a NG...
3. Convince Clavia to implement a new way of adjusting dynamics (they introduced a new velocity some time ago, but while I would also think it is a great idea to have dynamics curve adjustment, I doubt that we will see that any soon).

[mixaudio]

Hi Mr G, thanks a lot for the suggestions.

I visited that other thread you suggested. To be honest I couldn't understand the programming approach via PC, but another uses discusses these little boxes by a company named MIDI Solutions.

This product in particular http://www.midisolutions.com/prodvel.htm may be e a good option to have additional velocity curves and more options than what's built into Nord's Grand, by patching it to the MIDI out, turning local off and returnig notes via MIDI in.

I'm trying to digest the manual http://www.midisolutions.com/MIDI%20Solutions%20Velocity%20Converter.pdf as I see that you can actually program a user curve into it. Not sure about the learning curve (no pun intended) to do that, but I'd be willing to explore learning how to program it.

[mixaudio]

BTW, in an ideal world, I'd prefer and wish that Clavia would provide either more velocity curve options, or something that mimics the dynamics of piano sounds in a more expressive way.

Or, being that these instruments can be interfaced via USB with computers to load new samples/patches or rearrange them, it would be even better that the user could draw velocity curves and load them into the instrument to be selected from the front panel. It could still be selecting them via Light, Medium and Heavy setting but now being user customized curves.

I'm fairly new to the forum and to Nord/Clavia. Is there an actuall way or channel to "bug" them with this type of request??

[mixaudio]

Thanks Hlaalu, I see your point with "straightforwardness" being Clavia's goal.

Still, I'd think that for an instrument that is specifically designed to be played as a piano (hence the product name Nord Grand) the lack of more velocity curve options or the ability to tweak and customize them, seems to me more of a limitation than an actual feature enforcing the "straightforward/ease of use" idea.

In my humble opinion the lack of more expressive velocity curves (more "piano like" is you could say so) feels like a "missing link" between the great piano samples and the great keyboard action with Kawai's keybed.

As for your note on split zones, I actually commented on the first message of this post that I'd love to have more advanced split/layer options. Like being able to have piano on the entire keyboard and then assign something like strings only to a certain keyboard range or "zone". In an instrument like this, I'd find myself most of the time wanting to "layer and define a zone for the second layer" rather than splitting the keys between 2 sounds.

[FZiegler]

Maybe, you'd want to put those two points into the piano wish list - which should be a piano/grand wish list now:
nord-piano-grand-forum-f10/the-nord-piano-wishlist-t1568-90.html#p132163

But this is no guarantee Nord staff would read this. Your hotline to Nord is this:
https://www.nordkeyboards.com/about-us/feedback

[mixaudio]

Hey FZiegler, thanks for both tips, very appreciated. I'll visit both.

Cheers!

[mixaudio]

Still, while I've only browsed a few of the postings in this section of the forum, I'm actually more curious now about hearing how other Nord Piano or Nord Grand users feel about the expression and dynamics when playing these superb piano samples using the only 3 velocity curves available, or whether you've seen this addressed before as an "issue" or as something getting in the way of expressiveness from the instrument.

[maurus]

No Nord Grand or Nord Piano user here, but a very frequent user of the Nord Piano Library, played from a Kawai VPC1, using a Nord Electro.

I can very much relate to what you are asking for. In my own experience, changing the touch curves (which I can do on the VPC1) makes a big difference for the experience of playing the sounds and the attainable expressiveness. And there is just no comparison between the VPC1 keybed, with a suitable touch curve, and the waterfall keys of the Electro, playing the same sound. But that's expected, of course.

Now I have never played the Nord Grand. Perhaps before trying complicated technological gadgets to implement a touch curve, why not just play along for a while, give it due practice, and perhaps you'll adapt to the keybed? Just as you would do with the action of any given real (acoustic) piano?

[CelticSoulMan]

This is an area Nord need to gear up on. It was the first area of concern for me, considering the “type” of machine the Grand is, and it’s competitors. The Kawai MP7 has switchable velocities, so let’s get the Grand implemented with adjustable weight in software, and to be assignable to the control knob as A customisable value.
Light is unusable, medium doesn’t fit with the samples, and heavy seems to need a key drop hammer fall of around 1’ to produce reasonable tone.