Nord's classical Virtual Analog Synth Nord LEAD 1/2/2x/3/4/A1 and Nord Rack versions

A1 polyphony in unison modes?

Postby analogholic » 03 Dec 2014, 23:31

Hi everyone,

How is the A1´s polyphony affected by the various unison modes?
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A1 polyphony in unison modes?


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Re: A1 polyphony in unison modes?

Postby Marlowes » 04 Dec 2014, 11:16

Hej, herr A!

26 voices to start with ... I would be really surprised if unison did not reduce that number ... as in previous models ... :?
But that aspect is not mentioned in The Book;
unison.png
Unison
unison.png (45.49 KiB) Viewed 3284 times

(Kroffe should really know, but he is not on line very often. Ricard and Elektromin; you are pros - how does it work?
OK, I'm an engineer too ... but too old.)

/Amicalement
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Re: A1 polyphony in unison modes?

Postby analogholic » 04 Dec 2014, 12:42

Hej Herr Micke :)
Får la hugga Kroffe på 99:an då :)

Yeah, I wonder if unison 1 takes two voices and unison 2/3 takes four?!?
I think the NL3´s polyphony wasn´t affected by unison but I´m far from sure.
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Re: A1 polyphony in unison modes?

Postby ricard » 05 Dec 2014, 10:44

Unison mode on the NL3 results in 5 voices per note instead of just one, I think panned left-left-centre-right-right. The number of voices in the unison cannot be changed (unfortunately) however, the detune spread can. The polyphony does not go down, so the machine is still 24 voice polyphonic.This was a major selling point at the time. In contrast, on the NL2, detune really does consume twice the number of voices.

On the A1, if I remember correctly, Unison 1 (which doubles each voice) does not eat polyphony, you've still got 26 voices. Unison 2 (3 voices) and 3 (4 voices) drop the polyphony to half, so you get 13.

All this is not at all intuitive and does not mimic how a real analog would behave where unison eats physical voices; I'm not sure exactly what type of DSP trickery is used to acheive it, my vague guess after having bugged Clavia's support about it (i.e. Kroffe at the time) is that there are enough DSP resources to double up a voice, but not to have completely separate parameters for them. Hence it's possible to create two voices with essentially similar parameters, only the oscillator frequencies differing, but not to have completely separate voices, i.e. a polyphony of 2*26 voices. Or there could be something else going on, like the output from a single voice being split and pitch shifted in order to create the detune effect. My hunch is that the latter would create some artefacts that would be noticable in the sound though.

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Re: A1 polyphony in unison modes?

Postby Marlowes » 05 Dec 2014, 11:03

Hej Ricard!

Thanks! I really love being at the same forum as you.

By the way, when can I join your band? :angel:

Amicalement
Michael in Scania, too
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Re: A1 polyphony in unison modes?

Postby kroffe » 05 Dec 2014, 16:27

ricard wrote:On the A1, if I remember correctly, Unison 1 (which doubles each voice) does not eat polyphony, you've still got 26 voices. Unison 2 (3 voices) and 3 (4 voices) drop the polyphony to half, so you get 13.


I belive this is correct, ricard.
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Re: A1 polyphony in unison modes?

Postby Mr_-G- » 05 Dec 2014, 21:13

ricard wrote: I'm not sure exactly what type of DSP trickery is used to acheive it, my vague guess after having bugged Clavia's support about it (i.e. Kroffe at the time) is that there are enough DSP resources to double up a voice, but not to have completely separate parameters for them.


Maybe a number delay lines with fixed LFOs to generate the various detunings (like the chorus principle) so you process just the waveform, and not the rest of the synth paramters.
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Re: A1 polyphony in unison modes?

Postby S h a w » 01 Aug 2015, 15:19

ricard wrote:
On the A1, if I remember correctly, Unison 1 (which doubles each voice) does not eat polyphony, you've still got 26 voices. Unison 2 (3 voices) and 3 (4 voices) drop the polyphony to half, so you get 13.




Is this the definitive answer? I only ask because you qualify your answer with "if I remember correctly", and I have never seen this in print from Clavia... Which is REALLY a shame because a manual OUGHT to answer basic questions like this.

Thanks all,
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Re: A1 polyphony in unison modes?

Postby pablomastodon » 02 Aug 2015, 02:50

Take Kroffe's word for it.

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Re: A1 polyphony in unison modes?

Postby ricard » 08 Apr 2018, 00:39

I agree that if it's not in the manual it should be.
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