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Re: Nord Drum 3p is very noisy

Postby Jon Lukas » 22 Apr 2017, 19:33

PLEASE SEE MY UPDATE 2 POSTS DOWN

Just got my 3p today.

It was already at 1.24, but I re-updated just to be sure. It was an open box unit, so I loaded the factory banks in order to test it out.

The reverb is simply unusable. The crackly hissy sound is loud, and decays much slower than the reverb on most settings. I cannot imagine how this was shipped as a fully functional product. The reverb issue is unmistakeable right away on drum kit A-1

I was really looking forward to the reverb, as my Electro and Lead A1 both have incredibly good reverbs, pristine and clear. The only way to use this unit is with the reverb turned off. I would have thought this might just be a problem with my particular unit, except for the other reports of the exact same issue.

I hope Nord is working hard to fix this, but I haven't seen any indication of that other than the firmware update that supposedly fixed it.
Last edited by Jon Lukas on 23 Apr 2017, 21:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nord Drum 3p is very noisy


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Re: Nord Drum 3p is very noisy

Postby AfterFuture » 23 Apr 2017, 00:22

Thanks for the update Jon. I'm sorry to hear you're having the same problem as several others.

I've been following this thread for about a week now as I was looking to buy a Nord drum 3p soon, but now I'm not so sure.

I find it very surprising that Nord would let this slip by. Especially since they are known for their outstanding quality.

I wonder if this is a hardware issue/bad design or can it be fixed through a firmware update? Maybe a bad batch of units?

Anyone with additional information about this issue or anyone who has spoken to Nord directly please chime in and let us know what can be done about it.....or is the product a lemon?

I've watched several YouTube videos and some sound great with no apparent problem and others have obvious noise in the audio. It's a very strange issue.
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Re: Nord Drum 3p is very noisy

Postby Jon Lukas » 23 Apr 2017, 19:54

UPDATE:

My previous tests were all done with headphones (Shure SRH840) plugged right into the 3p.

I have now been testing it with my mixer and PA. It would seem that the noise is much less of an issue when using the line outs and monitoring through my mixer. Even when using the same headphones.

I'll post back when I have tested it more thoroughly, but it seems the issue might be only with the headphone out...That would make sense as it sounds like digital interference, and maybe the headphone circuit is too close to some other electronics. And perhaps some headphones exhibit the issue more than others.

Anyone else have a reduction/elimination of the issue when using line outs?
Last edited by Jon Lukas on 23 Apr 2017, 21:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nord Drum 3p is very noisy

Postby wartaler » 24 Apr 2017, 01:45

Hi Jon,
I was wondering exactly that when AfterFuture wrote that he didn't hear it in the demo's online.
Make sure you have no eq or gate switched on on your mixer, and match the levels. Perhaps also route the headphones output signal to your mixer, so that you can match the levels and A/B both outputs more easily.
Cheers,
Albert
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Re: Nord Drum 3p is very noisy

Postby Nebula » 24 Apr 2017, 23:22

Hello,

Still no answer from their tech support about the noise.

I tested the line outputs with a mixer and a sound card.The noise is still there.Reverb engine is very noisy.Also the noise fade outs in a strange way that It can be a good example for aliasing and quantization error.

I believe Clavia used some noise reduction software for their demos online to fool people.
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Re: Nord Drum 3p is very noisy

Postby Jon Lukas » 25 Apr 2017, 17:06

I just tested my 3p with the line outs right into my Clarett interface.

If I try really hard, I can hear the noise but it is very quiet. Looking at a recording in my audio editor, it seems the noise floor is about -78dB when the reverb ends but the hiss is still going on, and -83dB when the hiss stops. (I didn't normalize the file, and the max is a little under -2). So it is there but it is very very quiet, much better than the headphone output.
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Re: Nord Drum 3p is very noisy

Postby ISH_2016 » 28 Jun 2017, 23:59

I just received a brand new 3P unit today. I never considered myself very picky with noise, but turning on the unit, two things immediately bothered me:

1)The headphone output is very noisy. The hiss is constant when the unit is on, irrespective of settings and does not respond to the master volume level.Its just there... Anyone else experiences this?

2)The noise present when the reverb is on, even in its lowest settings. The sound is clear when reverb is off, so in theory I can run the signal through my effect pedals instead, but then I lose the per-pad adjustment. I hadn't read this thread before getting my unit, and the noise behavior is exactly as you previously described and in the musicnstuff.de article, so it's not just a random thing.

What surprises me is that this is very noticeable on the factory banks, so Clavia must be aware of it. Anyone got any clarification on this from the company?
Or is there anyone who has the unit and does NOT experience these problems?
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Re: Nord Drum 3p is very noisy

Postby Nebula » 01 Jul 2017, 23:19

No update, no answer yet.

It is a very noisy instrument.

Even when the reverb engine is off you can hear high amount of hiss.

I had lots of synths in the past.This unit creates more noise than 80's synths.

Maybe Clavia decided to put a hidden noise generator at the output stage that we can not appreciate?
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Re: Nord Drum 3p is very noisy

Postby ElefanteBlanco » 03 Jul 2017, 02:03

Hello Nord users, same problem here..
I bought the unit yesterday, the first thing I noticed when I switched it on was the annoying kind of white noise in the background. The noise is not too loud but when I put the track in my DAW to 0db I can hear that clearly. I have a Nord Rack 2x and it has not noise at all, the output is really clear in that case. Its not related to the main volume level, because if y turn the volume all way down the noise is gone. And I also found a second noise problem in the reverb!! the reverb had a kind of noise on it which has been described here by other users. My unit is on firmware 1.24

I think that this kind of problem is not aceptable from a high range musical product from a company as Clavia, although the noise is not very loud it´s noticeable in studio environment.

I will try to return this product if its posible and get my money back, I don´t want another Nord Drum 3 because as i read here this is not the only unit affected by this problem. It may be a general bad design on this device, it´s such a shame because the sound and overall quality is very good but this issue ruins the whole instrument (at least for me, maybe it could be usefull for somebody who only want the nord drum to play live) :(

Best regards and sorry for my poor english.
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Re: Nord Drum 3p is very noisy

Postby ISH_2016 » 04 Jul 2017, 00:14

My question, and what many of us have is:

Are the problems that I and others have experienced a result of some faulty batch, or are they inherit to the reverb engine and the design of the unit?

This is important to know in order to make informed decisions about purchasing the unit or not.
I think it is also important to provide specific examples, as the concept of "noise" can be very vague. I will try to do so here.

To recap, I identify three problems:

Issue 1: The constant hiss of the headphone output. The hiss begins when the unit is turned on, irrespective of settings, and does not respond to the master volume level. It is just there, constant and ever-present. In contrast, the line outputs in my unit are clean.

Issue 2: The noise present when any type of reverb is on, even on its lowest settings. The crackling noise will begin immediately when the pads are hit, and it decays slower than the reverb trail. The sound from the line outputs is otherwise crystal clear when the reverb is off.

Description of attached examples:
These non-dithered .wav files were recorded directly in my Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, straight from the line outs. I made sure that the volume settings on the unit was around 3/4th of max, and the interface preamp levels low (2/5ths of their range), making sure there was no clipping or distortion occurring. I used the factory preset of pad 4, in Drum Kit A1.

Nord3P_NoReverb.wav
A high-velocity hit, with the reverb turned off. To my ears, it is crystal-clear.
(750.04 KiB) Downloaded 308 times

Nord3P_Reverb.wav
A high-velocity hit, with the reverb turned on, to the default type (P3) and value of 9 (out of 50). Might be hard to hear the noise, but should become obvious in higher volumes.
(1.46 MiB) Downloaded 278 times

Nord3P_Reverb_LowVelocity.wav
A low velocity hit, same settings as in file 2.
(1.78 MiB) Downloaded 218 times

Nord3P_Reverb_LowVelocity_boost.wav
Same as file 3, but with a +12 db boost in its channel in Ableton. Turning the volume up, you should be able to hear how bad the S/N ratio actually is, and how long the decay of the noise.
(1.78 MiB) Downloaded 234 times


Issue 3: The reverb in general accumulates a lot of hiss and noise in some patches, to an unacceptable degree in some cases. Here is the description of a patch demonstrating this:

Noise levels set to 0. Click levels set to 0. In the Tone section, set Wave to D2, Freq to 0, Decay to 36, Bend to 26, Time to 50 and Pitch set to 70.6. Distortion, EQ, Delay, and all effects turned off. Reverb type set to Hall, and value 20.

I attach sounds of the patch with and without reverb. For comparison, I also ran the dry signal through the hall algorithm of my TC Electronics HoF reverb pedal at maximum decay time, levels and tone.

Nord3P_Patch_NoReverb.wav
(2.01 MiB) Downloaded 248 times

Nord3P_Patch_Reverb.wav
(2.31 MiB) Downloaded 260 times

Nord3P_Patch_HoF.wav
(3.39 MiB) Downloaded 215 times



The bottom line is: Can you verify that you experience the same problems or that you can replicate the noise described here and demonstrated in the attached examples? We will then see how to take it from there.
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