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Re: Kick Trigger for Nord Drum 3P

Postby wartaler » 22 Sep 2018, 16:12

hi,
Alesis, Roland and Yamaha 'silent' kick pedals are relatively small because they don't have a beater, don't need a bassdrum pad, the krigg by triggera converts a regular drum pedal into something similar. I saw a trigger called 'TT e-kick' which is much smaller, perhaps similar to what you made. Did you check sites as 'Instructables'? There you may find some tips on what size of piezo to use, how to mount them to the surface etc..
Albert
Last edited by wartaler on 23 Sep 2018, 08:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kick Trigger for Nord Drum 3P


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Re: Kick Trigger for Nord Drum 3P

Postby bentstavanger » 03 Oct 2018, 14:12

wartaler wrote:hi,
Alesis, Roland and Yamaha 'silent' kick pedals are relatively small because they don't have a beater, don't need a bassdrum pad,


Hi Albert,

Yes, the Roland pedals are 2-3kg, small and light, but too heavy for my purpose. Not in themselves, but when combined with all the other gear it need to bring with me in my suitcase... The Yamaha is only 1,3kg, but still too heavy. The Alesis might be lighter, but it has a reputation for being noisy.

I did come across two other options: the TapKAT Trigger Footswitch (alternatemode.com) and the F.A.T. Pedal (drumtech.com). The F.A.T. Pedal is shaped like an actual kick drum pedal but weighs only ½kg. The TapKAT Trigger Footswitch is just a footswitch with built-in cable, but can trigger at a fixed velocity.

I don't know how that is possible, though. Maybe a piezo being squeezed by mechanical action? Or maybe some low voltage from a button battery? Customer service writes:

"Question: Will the TapKAT Trigger Footswitch work as a kick trigger for an electronic drum module or drum, e.g. Nord Drum or Kat KTMP1?
Answer: Yes it will work but you will get no dynamics. It's a switch on/off."
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Re: Kick Trigger for Nord Drum 3P

Postby wartaler » 03 Oct 2018, 17:41

Hi benstavanger,

Thanks for the update!
Interesting that TapKAT, I think it's a momentary switch + a battery; when you press the switch a fixed voltage from he battery will be on the TS jack. Which reminds me of a thread about triggering the ND2 with the 'drum gates' from a Beatstep pro sequencer, this caused double triggering on the ND2; once when the voltage went from 0 to 10 V, again when the voltage went back from 10 to 0 V. If they tested this TapKat with a Nord drum, I guess it's fine, apart from the fact that it will always trigger at the same velocity..

The F.A.T. pedal looks simple but effective! With a 'military grade' hinge, hopefully the rest of the pedal is durable too, ie the springs, but should be ok, looks well made..
I personally would go for the F.A.T. just because it allows dynamic playing,
Keep us posted!
Albert
Last edited by wartaler on 06 Oct 2018, 20:39, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Kick Trigger for Nord Drum 3P

Postby bentstavanger » 06 Oct 2018, 15:43

wartaler wrote:...it will always trigger at the same velocity..


Hi Albert,

For me it's fine with the fixed velocity. I will be standing up when playing, so I won't be able to nuance my footwork anyway. It's a problem to get hold of the TapKAT in Europe, though. The shipping cost is as much as the pedal itself, so the total cost including import tax and fees would end up around 150€! I might go to the U.S. sometime next year, in which case I will buy it then.

But for now, I think I will have to make something myself. The piezo is not really working out for me, I have to wear shoes with hard soles (which I never do) and bang it really hard (even with Pad Sens at max). Still, sometimes it doesn't trigger, and that is simply too unreliable to use on stage. I have tried two different stomp boxes, one from Ortega and one from Logjam, both where unreliable.

I need something like the TapKAT, so I was thinking it might be possible to retrofit a regular footswitch, e.g. the Boss FS-5U, so that it sends a fixed voltage from a button battery or something. I would then use the Pad Sense to adjust to the actual velocity according to style etc. Do you think that would be possible? How would I find out the voltage needed to trigger the 3P? I did not find any specifications in the manual or on the Nord site...

Or is there maybe some other better/easier/cheaper way of doing this, i.e. using some kind of simple MIDI trigger (I haven't found any on the internet)? Maybe there is some device that can "translate" a signal from a footswitch into a MIDI note on/off signal? I found the MIDI Solutions Footswitch To MIDI Controller, but it's pretty expensive.

I am frustrated that the 3P does not have an option to use a regular footswitch as kick trigger (unlike many other electronic drums). It would have made life so much easier... :-/
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Re: Kick Trigger for Nord Drum 3P

Postby wartaler » 06 Oct 2018, 20:38

Hi!
Frustrating indeed!
-Did you also try lowering the threshold?
-Linear dynamics (dy) settings 01 or 02 compress trigger signals, further boost lower velocity triggers on the input

I've read the beatstep pro has 10 Volts on the drum gate outputs and that is enough to trigger the Nord Drum2 trigger inputs. The duration of this signal should be very short, otherwise it will cause double triggering.

Cheers,
Albert
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Re: Kick Trigger for Nord Drum 3P

Postby bentstavanger » 09 Oct 2018, 12:06

wartaler wrote:-Did you also try lowering the threshold?
-Linear dynamics (dy) settings 01 or 02 compress trigger signals, further boost lower velocity triggers on the input


Hi Albert,

Yes, I tried experimenting with all these setting. The best setting I found was:
-Threshold 3. Lower than that will make kick trigger by itself constantly (sounds like a machine gun).
-Sensitivity 20
-Dynamics Offset 2.
-Pad Mode Type does not seem to make a difference.

The kick has a uniform velocity because of the dynamics, but often it will not trigger 4-5 beats in a row. I get the best results with the Ortega Annalog, sometimes it will only miss triggering once in an 8 bar period, still too many for live use, though. And it has to be on a completely flat surface, completely unmoveable. Also I have to hit dead center with a fairly consistent and firm force every time (best if I use the heel). Difficult to recreate in a live setting... :-/

For now, I will just play the 3P without a pedal. Then maybe have the kick come from a backing track or something, I don't know yet. Somtime in the future I will look for an electronics wizard that can make a pedal for me, if I don't get to the US before that and buy the TapKAT. Anyway, now I have an idea what I need and how it could be made. Thanks for your input. :-)
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