Nord User Forum

[Mooser]

I run my Nord C2 to a Motion Sound Pro3x, with 2 Peavey KBA100 as the bottom. I don't use (except under unusual circumstances) the Leslie "sim" nor do I use (much) the "drive" control. The Motion Sound Pro3x has Fet adjustable overdrive, which can be pretty much tuned out by adjusting the "gain" control, although it can't be turned off. Not a cathode, anode, glass envelope or heater in the lot! My question to the over-modulation mayvens at the forum is:

Would interposing a tube pre-amp between the organ and amp be a good idea? What, if any are the benefits? And if it is a good idea, which tube pre-amp would you recommend?
I purchased an inexpensive Studio Art tube pre-amp, returned it for another, and both, as far as I could see, were defective (non-working VU meters/lights, extreme noise, pops and clicks etc.) and both returned. Is there another inexpensive tube pre-amp which does work reliably, or should I not bother unless I can get hold of one of the more expensive units? Is the gain in sound ("warmth", "real tube overdrive") worth the money and extra complication? Will it be audible in a live setting, or is it mostly for giving warmth to recording?

Any suggestions (except that I should go boil my head and stuff a sock in it) will be appreciated.

[dynanord]

Hey.

Definetly tube!
I own the TubeAmpManufaktur Organ Drive and play the C2 through a Hohner ORT 100.
You don´t have to cut the highs at 6khz because the tubes soften the "cold" clearlyness.
With this rig I just miss a little bass response (the ORT doesn´t have a big bass speaker) but
the overallsound is really great. If you like that 60´s vintage feeling... I have it all day.

By the way: Big up the C2, the organsound I was always looking for! Purchased a showroom model
for 1,6 k euros with the new OS already installed.

Peace from Germany.

[Mooser]

Thanks for responding. The problem I've had is that the inexpensive, one tube pre-amps I've tried have done more harm then good, or didn't work at all.
I haven't heard of that model , the "Organ Drive". I'll look it up on the web today. Thanks again.
I'm having pretty good luck with the sound of my C2 now that I've swapped out the Peaveys for a powered speaker (Alto, not expensive) below the Pro-3x but that tube "warmth" is lacking.

[andi85]

That's right. In my experience some cheap tube gear works pretty well, but it doesn't give you "the TUBE sound"
Also, a lot of guitar stuff simply doesn't sound right - my experiences with Hughes & Kettner Tubeman and Crunchmaster weren't all too satisfying, although it's great stuff without doubt.

I personally love old Dynacord tube heads. I have a 40W Eminent from 1965 or so, and I'm powering an old, passive Leslie with it. It sounds marvellous and has, if not the "122 signature sound", at least a great and authentic "TUBE sound"

[Mooser]

Andi, thanks. I'll look for a better choice of pre-amp. Maybe something more organ-specific. And I guess I'll have to spend more than $50.00!

[flmc59]

The 122 sound probably has two components at least.
Overdriving the final tube in the B3. Missmatch in the balanced transmission line of the differential first stage in the 122. Overdriving the output tubes in the 122.
Distorsion sets it early and slowly increase over the volume range. Most preamp type distorsions has to much on off.

[robnuckels]

Hey, Mooser !
It's somewhat ironic that you're on the fence about the tube thing. I recall a post you did 6 months ago or so, where you asked if the C2 sounded good thru a PA. I responded that it would sound good if you ran the C2 thru a tube pre-amp. You responded that running thru a tube would be overkill, because of the Nord's 'tube' like overdrive. several months later, i tried it without the tube : to my ears, the difference was too subtle. Now i've eliminated all of the 3 different tube pre-amps . however, if you really want to try 1, PM me about the tube pre amp, as i still have 2 that i don't use.

[dynanord]

Hi robnuckels,
which pre-amps did you try? I wonder how the difference could be too subtle. My "Organ Drive" changes the sound rapidly!
And - when I use the saturation of a real tube - I disable the C2´s digital drive section .
Cheers!

[Mooser]

"Missmatch in the balanced transmission line of the differential first stage in the 122."

You would not believe what I went through with that when I was trying to hook my A100 to my Motion Sound Pro 3X FROM THE PRE-AMP, NOT THE SPEAKER!!! Finally found somebody who understood the difference between a low impedance unbalanced speaker out-put and the balanced line from a Hammond pre-amp. I still don't want to talk about it. "One 'G' and ground", my foot. Anyway, that's over. It had to go through a Leslie (or other) input transformer. I still get upset when I think about it. If I had enough teeth left, I would grind them.

"You responded that running thru a tube would be overkill, because of the Nord's 'tube' like overdrive."

Rob, with all due respect, I don't think that was me. I haven't found much use for the "drive" knob, and don't have much to say about it. Of course, if I was drunk, I might have posted any damn thing. Ignore it, whatever I said, is my advice.

Really, I may be backwards (okay, I know I'm pretty backwards) but learning to use my C-2 and associated amps is turning out to be two year process. I feel like I'm just now (with the new "bottom rotor amp") getting an expressive tonewheel organ sound out of it. And volume balance using different drawbar settings can be a problem too. The very flexibility of the Nord can be a problem, since on a vintage you just accept what you got, and work with it if you can. I haven't gotten to the "drive" knob yet.

[robnuckels]

Hey, Dyna-Chord !
I've used the SPEAKEASY CLASSIC which i had made when i was still using my Voce clones, as well as the OB3 squared. this one i sold recently on ebay. I also used a SPEAKEASY SHOT-GLASS clone with barker switch , which is now on the market. This Shotglass tube pre amp is a pared down version of the Classic, with just a GAIN switch on the side of the unit, plus a BARKER SWITCH IN THE BACK TO dramatically increase the gain when competting with loud guitars, drums, etc. both of these were used only with 1/4 ", though you can get ones to with leslie pins. The Classic was distinctive for it's ability to remain 'clean' at a louder volume. Bruce Wahler did a review of this clone back in 2002 (?)
I've also tried the ART MP STUDIO pre amp which was good.
Bear in mind, however, that when i say the ' difference with or without the tube preamp is too subtle for my ears to know the difference' that all of us tend to hear things different. I make no claims to having a highly discerning ear when it comes to hearing certain frequencies, 'latencies, & even certain instances of clipping. I'm partially deaf,s o certain nuances of sound that others with a more practised ear on the technical level . Guys like Mooser, flmc59 probably hear certain things in the signal that i have no clue of . You may be better off listening to these more informed brothers in rotary. I am one of those people who picked the Nord because i was so GAGA over it's overall sound (especially the DRIVE) I also had 7 different clones within 1 year, & spent a fortune throwing away money on an endless series of stomp pedals, flangers,effects processers to get that sound, that my signal chains alone were comparable to the CLARK GRISWOLD character's plug-in atrocity in NATIONAL LAMPOON'S CHRISTMAS HOLIDAY. With constant brown-outs, trip failures, getting tangled up in the densely interwoven nightmares of wires & cords, ALL FOR RE-CREATING THE NORD SOUND ; i was so happy to have relative simplicty that I EVEN NEVER BOTHERED TO UPGRADE from vers. 1.32 (?)
But you guys on this forum obviously want to get on with the changing world ( and i respect each & ever one of you for doing just that ) so always bear in mind that any post that i posit on ANY of the forums is going to be a by-product of the Modern Pharmiceutical Spectrum of psychological 'chemical refreshment'. ( manic depression, rapid cycling, cancer,chronic pain, anti-psychotics, & the after effects of Radiation treatment .) if i have offended anyone on this post for posting such weird ramblings, try to understand that the SILENT MAJORITY of Rotary-Club Warriors PROBABLY consists of numerous types in my shoes. hell, just trying to re-create that glorious sound is enough to drive anyone Area 51.