The Nord C1, C2 and C2D Organ Forum

Re: Piano Sounds on the next C2d ?

Postby anotherscott » 06 Mar 2021, 03:01

Hiaalu, it turns out that the multi-contact implemetation i the SK Pro is switchable between two modes. High trigger, where the multi-contact effect is random, and velocity-based, where you lose the high trigger.
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Re: Piano Sounds on the next C2d ?


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Re: Piano Sounds on the next C2d ?

Postby anotherscott » 06 Mar 2021, 14:52

Hlaalu wrote:That's interesting, because if that's the case neither of those modes is the same as the XK-5's.
We already knew the implementation had to be different from that of the XK-5, because that used a 3-sensor action, whereas the SK Pro uses a 2-sensor action (no "middle" sensor between the highest and lowest).

Hlaalu wrote:I would only be a bit skeptical of the first high trigger random mode: sure enough it does give the effect of harmonics subsequentially coming in, but it's always the same regardless of how quick the key has been pressed, which is not very realistic.
Being random, it is not always the same, but right, it is not based on how quickly you press the keys.

Hlaalu wrote:I guess the system lets you adjust both how random and how asynchronous they are going to be
You can't adjust how random, and I'm not sure what you mean by how asynchronous, but there are a couple of parameters you can adjust.

Hlaalu wrote:By the way where did you read it's velocity based?
Page 85 of the manual describes both options.
http://www.hammondsuzuki.com/download/o ... ebbb8a.pdf
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Re: Piano Sounds on the next C2d ?

Postby Rob Millis » 14 Mar 2021, 13:12

Hlaalu wrote:Regarding the topic of a hypothetical successor of the C2D, I think the area in which Clavia should improve the most to be competitive again in this portion of the market is not so much the core sound of the (Hammond) organ nor how many other EP/AP sounds it will have, but rather the organ engine tweakability, and also not-so-subtle subtleties like the multicontact feeling of the keybed, which are pretty radical changes as compared to the present C2D.

Hammond Suzuki did this with the XK-5 and more recently even with their lower priced SK Pro which among other things has piano sounds and a basic synth in it. Whatever Clavia will come up with, at this point they can't pretend it didn't happen. Yet, I am not sure that implementing any form of multicontact emulation, or redesigning the interface so that such tweakability is easy accessible in the main panel, is something they can come up with in just a few months from now.


Like so many, I too would like to see some basic EPs in the C2d successor, but let's not forget that the Hammond SK-series are Electro rivals not dedicated organs, so in essence replacing the C2d with a dual manual Electro would be my preference, but I'd want at least two sets of drawbars and I hope that the appearance of the SKx would trigger that anyway. But the C2d as it is - like the Legend series and the new 'Classic' Mojo, neither of which have piano sounds either - remains very much an organ not an all-in-one like SK/Electro products, so no AP/EPs.

Clavia could clean up here as the EPs in the Suzuki SK series are pee-your-pants-laughing quality, and Crumar still haven't upgraded the dual manual Mojo to the same architecture as the infinitely superior Mojo-61. That said, given the poor quality SK pianos and EPs, at the moment the most credible way to get a dual manual with some extra voices is still the old Mojo, but that has some weird stuff happening (eg, if you want a Wurly on one manual, you have to have a Farfisa organ on the other!).

I can't say I ever get excited about multi-contact keypads or partial emulations of it. In all the years I played tone wheel Hammonds (I still own an A100) all I ever found a use for that function for was to demonstrate what happens if you press a key down slowly. Like the way that key click ends up being more tweak-able on many clones than far more significant things like the chorus/vibrato, I think the keybed thing could easily become over-obsessed about. Frankly, there is more variance in action, sound and almost any measurable 'thing' from one tone wheel console to another than there is between one clone wheel and the next, or between any clonewheel and an original. I'd vote for a standard Fatar keybed and keep the cost down.

The XK5 is great but it is very bulky, very expensive and I'm not a fan of that Hammond 'modular' format - for the effort of lugging about two separate manuals and a stand, I'd stick with my current rig of a C2d and a dedicated stage piano.
Last edited by Rob Millis on 14 Mar 2021, 13:24, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Piano Sounds on the next C2d ?

Postby anotherscott » 14 Mar 2021, 14:42

Rob Millis wrote:Clavia could clean up here as the EPs in the Suzuki SK series are pee-your-pants-laughing quality


I wouldn't say that, but either way, here's what they're doing with the new SK Pro...

Watch on youtube.com


though of course Nord has a whole lot of very different Rhodes sample sets you can load in.
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Re: Piano Sounds on the next C2d ?

Postby Meggia » 14 Mar 2021, 17:28

The release of a Nord Piano 5 is an unexpected event by most. For many people this choice made little sense. This led me to speculate : what if this Piano 5 was not only a stand-alone product but also a 73-key lower manual to be combined with a 61-key upper manual ? We'll get a new C2d with piano sounds (or a double manual Nord Electro 7). Many will call me a visionary and I know you will have a laugh !!
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Re: Piano Sounds on the next C2d ?

Postby anotherscott » 14 Mar 2021, 18:16

A lower manual shouldn't have a deep "Nord Piano 4" style control panel. You want the keys of the two keyboards to be closer to each other. The Grand layout would be a bit more suitable.
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Re: Piano Sounds on the next C2d ?

Postby Rob Millis » 20 Mar 2021, 02:57

anotherscott wrote:
Rob Millis wrote:Clavia could clean up here as the EPs in the Suzuki SK series are pee-your-pants-laughing quality


I wouldn't say that, but either way, here's what they're doing with the new SK Pro...

Watch on youtube.com


though of course Nord has a whole lot of very different Rhodes sample sets you can load in.


Oh, I would, honestly. The Wurlitzer especially isn't even as good as the one in a 20 year old Kurzweil Micro Ensemble. And all the revisions in the post SK1/2 models have been about velocity not improving the sounds.

I really wanted the SKx to have some really nice EPs in it as well as addressing the woeful drawbar set to manuals ratio that the SK2 had. But no - even Jim Alfredson told me that it really wasn't much of an upgrade to the EPs in real terms, and Jim is very diplomatic and a loyal, principled Suzuki man.

What does the SK Pro actually bring to the table other than synths - it's a better organ engine isn't it?

anotherscott wrote:A lower manual shouldn't have a deep "Nord Piano 4" style control panel. You want the keys of the two keyboards to be closer to each other.


We might have to disagree on the SK series EP sounds, but I'm with you there 100%.

Meggia wrote:The release of a Nord Piano 5 is an unexpected event by most. For many people this choice made little sense.

I'm seriously starting to think that the C2d might be the last dual manual organ from Clavia or anything like one. The Mojos and Legend Lives have nailed making something not much bigger than a C2D which has a more modern sound engine with better chorus vibrato and Leslie and - in the case of the Legend Live - really is like sitting at a B3 that's had the presets sawn off. For considerably less money. I doubt a large percentage of the same crew who need a dual manual would be tempted by another red thing with a non-traditional dashboard now they don't have to be.
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Re: Piano Sounds on the next C2d ?

Postby anotherscott » 20 Mar 2021, 03:11

Rob Millis wrote:What does the SK Pro actually bring to the table other than synths

What it brings to the table depends on what you're comparing it to.
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Re: Piano Sounds on the next C2d ?

Postby Rob Millis » 20 Mar 2021, 03:24

anotherscott wrote:
Rob Millis wrote:What does the SK Pro actually bring to the table other than synths

What it brings to the table depends on what you're comparing it to.


I'm just interested in what it is all about other than synths after you brought it up because it isn't something I want or need, so haven't delved in much myself. I think I read the SK Pro has a better organ engine in it than the SK1/2/x.

There's something that just doesn't quite scratch my itches about the SK-line. They seem to be all about compromise - generally not the best Suzuki organ engine added to a selection of extra sounds that range between usable (the acoustic pianos) to absolute drivel (the Wurlitzer; a big part of my loyalty to Clavia who get this right every time) and it took a major model revision (SK2>SKx) to even give you a set of drawbars per manual when the C2d and Legend Live are already offering every tactile control a tonewheel console provides.

And yet they aren't priced especially 'compromise'. ;)
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Re: Piano Sounds on the next C2d ?

Postby anotherscott » 20 Mar 2021, 05:00

Rob Millis wrote:I'm just interested in what it is all about other than synths after you brought it up...

Actually, it was Hlaalu who brought it up, not me, but yes I do find it appealing.

Rob Millis wrote:...because it isn't something I want or need, so haven't delved in much myself. I think I read the SK Pro has a better organ engine in it than the SK1/2/x.

There's something that just doesn't quite scratch my itches about the SK-line. They seem to be all about compromise - generally not the best Suzuki organ engine...

Yes, it has a better engine in it than the previous SK, and it is indeed the best Suzuki organ engine, the first time it's been available at this price.

If you want a board with a full array of dedicated organ controls and a full array of dedicated lead synth controls, the SK Pro and the Nord Stage 3 are probably your only choices. And that's a very nice combination of functions for a single board to put over a hammer-action board for your pianos and EPs.

But as I said, particular plusses and minuses depends on what you compare it to. I could list a whole bunch of ways it might be more appealing than the competitive Electro 6, for example. (Though of course, the Nord will retain some advantages of its own as well.)
Last edited by anotherscott on 20 Mar 2021, 13:37, edited 1 time in total.
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