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Re: Where could Nord go from here?

Postby anotherscott » 30 Oct 2018, 14:12

cgrafx wrote:The issue here going forward is that technology has moved on. Obviously there would need to be a redesign of the architecture, but m.2 SSD storage is blazing fast and could easily be used as primary storage and then transfer everything to RAM. You can easily transfer 8GB of data from SSD to RAM in under 10 seconds.

I imagine they will do a ground-up redesign at some point. It's tricky, in a low volume industry... a costly redesign has to last through a good number of years in order to pay for itself. So there's a built-in motivation to try to get as most mileage as you can out of a design. (And it's not like people aren't buying them as it is, either.) As for your particular design suggestion, keep in mind that you're talking about not just the cost of the SSD, but the cost of the 8 GB of RAM, as well as whatever else is required to handle the data transfer from one to the other, in terms of hardware, or hardware capable of running the necessary software.

Lewthepianoguy wrote:With reference to AnotherScott's comments of RAM and polyphony. Yes, I've been there with piano polyphony drop off and a few others have as well, I had that with the stage 2 and that crippled me at times.

I was not talking about the Stage 2 (40-60 polyphony, though still worked fine for most), my question was "Do you know anyone who has ever run out of polyphony at 120 on a Nord?" i.e. one of the newer models, which you were saying is still inadequate.

Lewthepianoguy wrote:I'm only trying to show where some customers look at the 1GB of Piano storage against the 2GB on the stage 3 and ask Why?

I suspect that the reason is that they were able to inexpensively upgrade the Nord Piano 3 to the Nord Piano 4 (no price increase, IIRC) by repurposing the board they were already building for the new Electro.
Last edited by anotherscott on 30 Oct 2018, 14:53, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Where could Nord go from here?


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Re: Where could Nord go from here?

Postby anotherscott » 30 Oct 2018, 16:20

Lewthepianoguy wrote:
anotherscott wrote:my question was "Do you know anyone who has ever run out of polyphony at 120 on a Nord?" i.e. one of the newer models, which you were saying is still inadequate

I did not say that the stage 3 is inadequate, far from it. just saying that when it comes more to the sample synth behaviour more than anything, polyphony is starved.

My 120 poly comment was in response to where you had said, "Take the Piano 4...It's a piano with 120 note poly. Ideally let's see the Piano 4 with 256 note poly" -- I was just saying I see no issues with the 120. Remember also that many boards have a single engine for everything, so for example, layered strings or an organ split cut into available piano polyphony. That doesn't happen on the Nord, where the piano has 120 polypony of its own, no matter what additional non-piano split/layered sounds you are using.

Lewthepianoguy wrote:It doesn't make much sense to have 120 note poly for the piano engine, then far less for the sample side and worse for the synthesis side.

VA synthesis uses different technology than sample playback, its requirements are different, and it is common for it to have less polyphony. (And at least in the case of the NS3, the non-piano sample side is the same as the synth side, which is what gives us the cool ability to process the samples through the synth functions). Remember, the NS3 synth is almost an A1, which has 26 polyphony. This isn't just a Nord thing, look at other VA synths like King Korg, Studiologic Sledge, Waldorf Blofeld, Roland System 8... all with polyphony of 25 or less. (Though there are some with more as well.) The new Yamaha MODX has half the polyphony for ts FM synthesis engine as it does for everything else. The point is, it can make sense to have different polyphonies for different sound engines, because the tech requirements for these things are different.

Lewthepianoguy wrote:OK, saying that, a Stage 4 which is expanded upon, instead of 2 panels (A and B, what about 4 which makes better sense for multi layering / instrument control, etc.

Interestingly, I remember reading somewhere that there was a design choice where the Stage 3 could have either had more panels or seamless sound transitions, and they chose the latter.
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Re: Where could Nord go from here?

Postby PScooter63 » 30 Oct 2018, 19:16

anotherscott wrote:my question was "Do you know anyone who has ever run out of polyphony at 120 on a Nord?" i.e. one of the newer models, which you were saying is still inadequate

It would be interesting to capture NoteOn/Off and sustain data for a performance from those raising the concerns (say, a complete set of a gig) to a data file, then funnel it into an analysis program (presumably PC/Mac/Linux based) to correlate some heavy analysis and stats. Such as:

  • The maximum polyphony actually requested by the controllers during that timeframe,
  • How many times that threshold occurred,
  • How long did each occurrence last.
Technically, it wouldn't have to be just the max. You could map a whole spectrum of polyphonic use across time.

Of course, this assumes that you're performing something actually worth listening to (i.e., not gratuitously banging away with the sustain pedal held). :D
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Re: Where could Nord go from here?

Postby Spider » 30 Oct 2018, 20:44

Rusty Mike wrote:As an aside, it’s really nice to see you back on the forum Pablo!

I’ll just add the opinion I’ve stated before. I’d like to see a A1/Electro hybrid. Just organ and synth (with the sample library) plus effects, no pianos. 61 or 73 keys SW action with aftertouch.


This would be a nice twist.
The "baby Stage" others are mentioning, in my view already exists: it's the Electro since the 5-6 model.
Stage piano, organ, samples and effects, multitimbral with splits and layers.
95% of anything the average keyboard player will ever need.
Of course, what's missing is a proper synth (with pitch bend and mod wheel, possibly aftertouch).

Mike's suggestion could be great: an organ/synth only board, with sampling capability, pitch bend and mod wheel, drawbars, waterfall keybed with aftertouch.
A hybrid between an Electro and a Wave.
I don't know how well it could sell as a general-purpose instrument without a proper piano section, but for sure it would be a very unique instrument, in very typical Clavia style
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Re: Where could Nord go from here?

Postby CountFosco » 31 Oct 2018, 11:13

It would certainly solve my dilemma for a second rig, and I can't think I'm unique. I'd like a nice bottom board, weighted for AP and EP. Say a Seven or an SV-1 (or a Zarenbourg or Vintage Vibe if I was loaded). Then one other SW board for everything else. Organ, bendy synth and poly synth are high priorities for me. Romply stuff not so much, but it's gotta be there I suppose, I never know what my cover band will throw at me next. I was thinking about the Numa Organ 2 for a while as it has PB and mod wheels, but it already means adding a module. I know a Stage + an anything could also be a solution, but I kind of like the idea of having purpose built hardware rather than using midi.
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