Changes in Vox Continental modelling

[NeFerreira]

Hello friends! Do you have any ideia why nord mixed the flute and reed drawbars on vox continental? E3 and Stage 2 and C2D are the last models with the independent drawbars (Flute and reed / ~ and M)?

[docbop]

The Vox Continental is made by KORG not Nord.

[maxpiano]

The Vox Continental is made by KORG not Nord.

He means on the Nord modelling of Vox in the Organ section, drawbars behaviour was actually changed has the OP reports.

@NeFerreira: Hello and welcome to NUF! About your question, only Nord knows why...

[Hlaalu]

I don't think they "mixed" them. Rather, the Vox engine works as if the sine wave drawbar was always pulled all out, and when you pull the square wave one, you add it to the mix.

It's a strange implementation for sure, but I am going to speculate that they did so "so that users won't think their board is broken"... see 1' drawbar percussion cancel...




By the way that's not the only thing that's different from the actual Vox Continental: in the Nord, they fused the upper and lower manual (of the 2 manual version) and thus each manual has access to the full set of drawbars that in the original were different for the upper and the lower.

[maxpiano]

I am going to speculate that they did so "so that users won't think their board is broken"... see 1' drawbar percussion cancel...

Good point, I remember a discussion where someone reported having toalked to Clavia product manager and he explained that some choices were targeted at the so called "less experienced users" that otherwise get confused by the philological cloning of some "defects" of the originals (I am not 100% convinced this is a good reason, but that's what and maybe they were really getting to many mail asking "why is Vox silent on my Nord"?)

[NeFerreira]

I don't think they "mixed" them. Rather, the Vox engine works as if the sine wave drawbar was always pulled all out, and when you pull the square wave one, you add it to the mix.

It's a strange implementation for sure, but I am going to speculate that they did so "so that users won't think their board is broken"... see 1' drawbar percussion cancel...




By the way that's not the only thing that's different from the actual Vox Continental: in the Nord, they fused the upper and lower manual (of the 2 manual version) and thus each manual has access to the full set of drawbars that in the original were different for the upper and the lower.

I think they ruined the vox engine, if there wasn't a drawbar available it would be understandable but since you have an "extra" drawbar they could keep it like E4. Separate drawbars for flute and reed, and when they are in (0 position) the vox won't produce sound, just like vox continental.
Yes I discovered it when I was looking at the manual, right now I am using 8' 4' 2' IV and transpose it one octave down.
Unfortably when you pull out the 1' drawbar the percussion don't cancel.
Hope they update this or when they realese E7 they fixed it.

[Hlaalu]

I remember a discussion where someone reported having toalked to Clavia product manager and he explained that some choices were targeted at the so called "less experienced users" that otherwise get confused by the philological cloning of some "defects" of the originals

It makes sense that that's the reason why they are doing this (it doesn't make much sense as a reason itself, but... ). If you notice there are other little clues: when you turn the organ engine on on any empty program, it's always all drawbars out, when in fact it would be more convenient to have it all at zero. Again, an instance of "let's not make the user think that something is broken because no sound is coming out".

If you ask me this reasoning could be perhaps justified on an entry level keyboard, but not on a thousands € machine. Then again, where's the line between this and the other quirkness of those instruments (Hammond, Vox, etc.) that they decided to keep? Who knows that in the next iteration of hardware they'll decide to take the 3rd harmonic percussion out because "hey, I play a C and I hear a G... is my keyboard broken?". It's a slippery slope... to an unfortunate place.

I think they ruined the vox engine, if there wasn't a drawbar available it would be understandable but since you have an "extra" drawbar they could keep it like E4.

It has become clearer and clearer over the last years that Nord is moving its focus away from the organ engine and closer to synth and piano. I wouldn't expect too much about the Vox, which is a niche within a niche within a niche. I don't know how many people actually use it. (There are also bugs on the vibrato function on the Stage 3, never fixed and I doubt they will ever be.)

Separate drawbars for flute and reed, and when they are in (0 position) the vox won't produce sound, just like vox continental.

To me the main limitation isn't so much that we can't mute the organ, but that the way Nord implemented it prevents us to only use the square wave drawbar and silence the sine wave. We can, at best, have both at full volume, but not the square only.

Yes I discovered it when I was looking at the manual, right now I am using 8' 4' 2' IV and transpose it one octave down.

The transposing thing is tricky though, because on the original the two manuals were physically offset by an octave or so. So the drawbar of the upper manual were an octave below the drawbars of the lower, in order for the same key to sound the same. With one single manual to work with, it's inevitable that one has to make adjustments for that.

Unfortably when you pull out the 1' drawbar the percussion don't cancel.
Hope they update this or when they realese E7 they fixed it.

I doubt they'll ever "fix" this, because again the organ doesn't seem to be a priority any more. The 1' drawbar percussion thing has been discussed again and again on this forum. Most users don't get Nord's choice, but it's their choice...

[maxpiano]

I remember a discussion where someone reported having toalked to Clavia product manager and he explained that some choices were targeted at the so called "less experienced users" that otherwise get confused by the philological cloning of some "defects" of the originals

It makes sense that that's the reason why they are doing this (it doesn't make much sense as a reason itself, but... ). If you notice there are other little clues: when you turn the organ engine on on any empty program, it's always all drawbars out, when in fact it would be more convenient to have it all at zero. Again, an instance of "let's not make the user think that something is broken because no sound is coming out".

If you ask me this reasoning could be perhaps justified on an entry level keyboard, but not on a thousands € machine. Then again, where's the line between this and the other quirkness of those instruments (Hammond, Vox, etc.) that they decided to keep? Who knows that in the next iteration of hardware they'll decide to take the 3rd harmonic percussion out because "hey, I play a C and I hear a G... is my keyboard broken?". It's a slippery slope... to an unfortunate place.

100% in agreement. Or at least leave the user the option to have a "Beginners (Simplified) mode" and an "Expert (original) mode" to choose from.

[NeFerreira]

I doubt they'll ever "fix" this, because again the organ doesn't seem to be a priority any more. The 1' drawbar percussion thing has been discussed again and again on this forum. Most users don't get Nord's choice, but it's their choice...[/quote]

I agree with you, but the purpose of electro models is to recreate the electromechanical instruments, and from 4 to 6 we had a downgrade in a lot of aspects. Also, I think the organs, electric pianos clavinets, and harpsichord engine need a complete rework. I could explain them if you're interested to hear.

[Hlaalu]

I agree with you, but the purpose of electro models is to recreate the electromechanical instruments, and from 4 to 6 we had a downgrade in a lot of aspects. Also, I think the organs, electric pianos clavinets, and harpsichord engine need a complete rework. I could explain them if you're interested to hear.

It's not that I'm not interested, it's that whatever you'll say will most likely stay here and it won't reach Nord's desk. But yes, I'm interested to hear, why not?