The Nord Piano Library - unsolicited advice for a makeover

[Rusty Mike]

I think the uprights are probably the most misunderstood of Nord's samples. I think what lot of people may not realize is that many recordings of pop and rock tunes were done with upright pianos, as that what was in the studio.

When I got my first Electro 2, I was amazed how one of the upright pianos sounded just like the piano interlude in Derek & The Dominos "Layla." I don't recall the exact piano sample (and there were only a few at the time), but the sonic resemblance was uncanny. I don't know what piano was used in the recording, but that upright sample nailed the vibe of the sound a whole lot better than any of the grands.

Since Queen was brought up earlier, I get the same feeling with the recording of Bohemian Rhapsody. I don't know what piano was used but, to me, the tone is replicated much more accurately on an upright sample than a grand. There's a meatier midrange, more body in the alto area and, yes, less fidelity. Play Lady Madonna or Let It Be using the BlueSwede, Queen or Black uprights - you'll hear it.

Overall, the uprights fit into rock very well. They have reduced bass to help reduce the low end mud bath, generally strong midrange and a singing upper register. They are relatively ambient; you can hear the soundboard as part of the sample. I'll also argue that the subtleties of a high fidelity piano sample are largely lost in the din of guitars, basses, singers, drums, etc., so a lot of the detail you hear when playing alone to yourself is lost.

I think there is sometimes this stigma that it has to be a grand piano or nothing. I don't agree. I love playing jazz standards using one of the older sounding uprights. Have to admit that I have not experimented all that much with the Bambino or Baby uprights, but I would imagine they have their fans (some of whom may not participate in this forum).

But, to each his/her own. Use what works best for you. We play music to be happy and help make others happy.

[criss]

@Rusty Mike: Which Nord upright would you recommend for playing in a rock band? Unfortunately I have space only for one.
(Until now I used the Silver grand XL with no EQ)

[lvercaut]

I think the uprights are probably the most misunderstood of Nord's samples. I think what lot of people may not realize is that many recordings of pop and rock tunes were done with upright pianos, as that what was in the studio.

When I got my first Electro 2, I was amazed how one of the upright pianos sounded just like the piano interlude in Derek & The Dominos "Layla." I don't recall the exact piano sample (and there were only a few at the time), but the sonic resemblance was uncanny. I don't know what piano was used in the recording, but that upright sample nailed the vibe of the sound a whole lot better than any of the grands.

Since Queen was brought up earlier, I get the same feeling with the recording of Bohemian Rhapsody. I don't know what piano was used but, to me, the tone is replicated much more accurately on an upright sample than a grand. There's a meatier midrange, more body in the alto area and, yes, less fidelity. Play Lady Madonna or Let It Be using the BlueSwede, Queen or Black uprights - you'll hear it.

Overall, the uprights fit into rock very well. They have reduced bass to help reduce the low end mud bath, generally strong midrange and a singing upper register. They are relatively ambient; you can hear the soundboard as part of the sample. I'll also argue that the subtleties of a high fidelity piano sample are largely lost in the din of guitars, basses, singers, drums, etc., so a lot of the detail you hear when playing alone to yourself is lost.

I think there is sometimes this stigma that it has to be a grand piano or nothing. I don't agree. I love playing jazz standards using one of the older sounding uprights. Have to admit that I have not experimented all that much with the Bambino or Baby uprights, but I would imagine they have their fans (some of whom may not participate in this forum).

But, to each his/her own. Use what works best for you. We play music to be happy and help make others happy.

I agree 100% but now i have enough uprights and i want that Steinway D XL or XXL sample and that Bechstein D and ... Maybe i should have bought a Grandstage...

[Gambold]

>Overall, the uprights fit into rock very well. They have reduced bass to help reduce the low end mud bath, generally strong midrange and a singing upper register. They are relatively ambient; you can hear the soundboard as part of the sample.<

Good points. I've tried several uprights in our pop/rock combo and they do seem a more "natural" fit than some thundering grand, and they sound great in practice. Trouble is, and maybe others have experienced this, that when things get loud during live work, as they always do when rock guitars and drums get going, the piano gets easily buried. Granted I don't want to be the feature, but I also don't want to be lost in the murk. House "sound guys" especially cannot be counted upon to save the keyboardist. The Bright Grand has been the singular sample that I can always depend on.

Is there an Upright that cuts through like the BG? I haven't found it. But that could be for a lack of deep looking.

[PScooter63]

I'd like to take a moment to apologize for my earlier taunt. No excuse for that.

[Rusty Mike]

The Black Upright has been written positively about by blues and rock players. It cuts more than most of the others. I would look also at the Grand Upright. It's a Yamaha U3, which tends to be a fairly bright piano.

In either case, try adjusting the EQ to help with the cut. I would start with a boost somewhere in the 1 - 1.5 kHz area. It will be based largely on the room and your amplification. A choose your reverb carefully, as it affects the overall sound of the program. Select one of the room reverbs, which are brighter than the halls and stages. And keep the reverb level really light. Too much just buries your sound.

[Lewthepianoguy]

Just remember this. The Stage and Electro as well as the Piano, they are basically open end samplers at the end of the day. If you're not happy with Nord's flavours, why not encourage some 3rd party devs to sample pianos or convert their libraries to nord format for a fair price. No two people are alike here no two people's ears are exactly alike either. I like what Nord have done with their piano library, though I do feel that there's a few things missing. OK I go back in a way to my original comment about string behaviour and hammer behaviour. No 2 pianos are alike technically speaking as changes in timbers, hammer felts, damper felts, even the strings themselves, all have character. Steel vs copper, steel vs nickel, etc, different winding tensions for the lower octaves, etc. hardness / softness of hammers, voicing characteristics of the hammers, etc. A piano can sound rubbish or incredibly sexy. Why not look to expand the Nord library into a different spectrum such as modelling. Modelling and custom voicing can make a real difference.

I'd be considering an idea along the lines that the nord piano 4 is a bit of a mistake, this is why... Look at the available RAM for the piano library. 1GB. now, for a piano instrument alone, this should be 4x this or at least 2x this. The Nord Piano should also be over 128 note poly, ideally 256 note. The reason is obvious, better stable acoustic performance, especially if layering pianos, etc. The whole point of the nord piano is just that, a Piano instrument which offers pure tonal excellence / sexiness and as such should be treated with such. My concern in this aspect is the direction in which Nord are taking with regards sample Ram and voice allocation. As this is a sampler keyboard like an Akai Z8 or anything else like this, why not come up with a more high end level of sample handling, including sample synthesis etc to larger voice count and larger ram. Surely this is doable within a price range?

[daniel70]

i vote for new Rhodes

Me too!!! I always come back to the old MkV sample which is far from perfect, but for me it’s the best compromise. But i would be very very happy with a new Rhodes sample, more detailed, without loops and not so special... please Nord!!!

[fieldflower]

Just remember this. The Stage and Electro as well as the Piano, they are basically open end samplers at the end of the day. If you're not happy with Nord's flavours, why not encourage some 3rd party devs to sample pianos or convert their libraries to nord format for a fair price.

I'd guess this would violate some patent or other.
Otherwise someone would surely already have made non-Nord .npno samples available already.

[Lewthepianoguy]

It wouldn't be a patent issue if Nord made an arrangement with developers etc or if the terms of the use of the sample tools, etc would cover 3rd party devs to make nord piano library instruments publicly available or for sale, etc. That is an issue that I'm sure Nord would work on. look at manufacturers like korg, roland, kurzweil, etc all have 3rd party devs / soundware made and sold with the formats for instruments etc.