This 'unofficial' Forum is dedicated to the Clavia Nord Keyboards, including the Nord Stage, Nord Electro and Nord Piano. Discuss any issues around Nord's keyboards, share your favorite patches, samples, and music. We are not affiliated with Clavia!
White Grand XL 6.1
Royal Grand 3D YaS6 XL 5.4
Velvet Grand Model1 Lrg 5.3
Silver Grand SK7 Lrg 5.3
Grand Imperial Bdorf Lrg 5.3
Studio Grand 2 YaC7 Lrg 5.3
Bright Grand YaS4 Med 5.3
Mozart FortePno A.Walter Med 5.3
EGrand 3 Mono CP80Amped Sml 5.3
Grand Pianos
White Grand
Royal Grand 3D
Velvet Grand
Silver Grand
Italian Grand
Bright Grand
Grand Imperial
Grand Lady D
Studio Grand 1
Studio Grand 2
Concert Grand Close
Concert Grand Ambient
So does that mean we don't need to download White Grand, Royal Grand, Velvet, Silver, ... because they are all factory installed already?
If so, then what is the 2GB for?
Also... we have 2GB to download Piano sound, and 1GB to download other Instrument sound (Sample Library)... and so Nord Grand and Nord Piano 5 both have 2GB for Piano Sound, but Nord Piano 5 has 1GB sample sound capacity, but Nord Grand only has 512MB capacity?
So for the 2GB, such as Silver, if we download the 200MB version, that means we download about 10 of those?
There is a 50MB version of Silver... does that mean it is a lower resolution (or lower sample rate) one?
However, since most Grand Pianos are included in the factory installation, why do we still need to download them?
Also, I was thinking that since a 256GB microsd card can be US$28 on Amazon... so 2GB or 1GB is really small size, relatively speaking...
you don't tell which Nord you purchased, but it seems you got one. Congrats!
When you get it, there are numerous samples installed for the piano and the synth engine - those two memory sections aren't interchangeable. Starting with these samples, a lot of programs are pre-configured. And you can even make more of them or change them. So, to play your instrument, you don't need to download anything.
That's attempt #1: Just use the sounds already available on the instrument. Which is not what the Nord architecture is meant for - but perfectly doable.
Attempt #2 would be to check the other samples available in the Nord online libraries and download one or another sample to vary some programs.
Attempt #3 would be to download all available samples and store them in your own library. You may even delete all factory samples and programs to start from scratch (maybe not desirable for beginners as those factory programs show quite well how to shape different sounds).
I have no idea which 2 GB you mean. Almost all the memory on the Nords is reachable for your operations: load, delete, swap/exchange etc. It's the Nord Sound Manager that helps you doing that.
The memory installed on your Nord isn't the same type as the one on SD cards - even if it's both Flash memory. So you can't compare the 2 GB on the Nord with 128 GB on your smartphone or the like. You will never be able to install every sample available -- you will always need to select. Keep a little free space for tests!
These users thanked the author FZiegler for the post:
Spider wrote:All your questions are exhaustively answered on the website and the manuals, that you can find in the "downloads" section
yes, like sometimes I ask a physics question on a physics forum and somebody will tell me all my questions are in the physics textbook which is 1100 pages long. Identify the 50 pages that might have the answer, and then identify the one paragraph that has answer. And it is certain it is 100% clear and everybody will understand it clearly. There will be no need for school and teachers. There should be no one asking questions.
Last edited by ryaneuler on 24 Oct 2022, 23:41, edited 1 time in total.
FZiegler wrote:
That's attempt #1: Just use the sounds already available on the instrument. Which is not what the Nord architecture is meant for - but perfectly doable.
Thank you. So when it has all the pre-installed piano sound, would that make the 2GB have about 800MB remaining?
I haven't got the Piano 5 or the Nord Grand yet... I think the Piano 5 is a Fatar keyboard and I was hoping to get a more advanced keyboard... and then later on I found it probably has the same keyboard as Kawai's ES920? I was thinking of a VPC1 keyboard or the one in MP11SE... but I tried an MP11SE in a showroom and it was a bit heavy keys. I tried the acoustic SK-EX Grand and the Kawai CA59 and the keys are very light to press down... so I am a bit unsure right now.
Last edited by ryaneuler on 24 Oct 2022, 23:28, edited 1 time in total.
Spider wrote:All your questions are exhaustively answered on the website and the manuals, that you can find in the "downloads" section
yes, like sometimes I ask a physics question on a physics forum and somebody will tell me all my questions are in the physics textbook which is 1100 pages
Welcome. To be fair, the questions you asked are covered on the very first page of the Nord Piano 5 manual right after the table of contents, the Specifications page on the website, and the Nord Piano Library information page on the website.
FREE SOUNDS
Since the Nord Piano 5 is designed as an open system, each and every piano and sample in the Nord Piano 5 can be replaced. This is done using the Nord Sound Manager software which is available as a free download from our website.
The Nord Piano 5 is compatible with the extensive Nord Piano Library and the Nord Sample Library. As new sounds become available, these can be downloaded for free from the Sound Libraries section of our website.
DIFFERENT SIZES
All of our Uprights and Grand Pianos are available in multiple sizes. All the Pianos in the Nord Piano Library uses our special Loss-less compression technology that lets us fit much more information without sacrificing sound quality. Also, all versions of our pianos are adjusted by ear to ensure maximal dynamic response and playability. This is part of what makes our Pianos one of the best sounding and most realistic in the world – regardless of file size.
XL The Extra Large versions
Fully mapped keyboard
String Resonance: pedal-down samples for entire keyboard range
Detailed velocity mapping
Stereo sampled
L The Large versions
String Resonance: pedal-down samples for entire keyboard range
Detailed velocity mapping
Stereo sampled
M The Medium versions
String Resonance: pedal-down samples in the important middle region of the range
Detailed velocity mapping
Stereo sampled
S The Small versions
Detailed velocity mapping
Stereo sampled
Last edited by ajstan on 24 Oct 2022, 23:46, edited 2 times in total.
These users thanked the author ajstan for the post:
I've been looking for the best stage piano for quite a while. And I'm sure you never will get one if you don't:
a) make sure you know what you are looking for: what exactly do you want to do?
b) go to show rooms multiple times until you are at ease with one product. If it has the best keyboard or sound generator or user interface or whatever thing or not...
I think there is plenty of free space for new programs made on your own in a new Nord, but not much space left for samples. So you will need to delete or exchange samples to get new ones on the board. But don't worry: There's nothing that isn't on the Nord website to download again.
BTW the Nord Piano 5 (some sort of Fatar TP/40) certainly doesn't have the same keybed as the Kawai ES920. And the Kawai keybed inside the Nord Grand isn't the same as any other Kawai product's - as it isn't graded and doesn't have an escapement (as far as I know). I now own a Kawai VPC1, and it has issues with the pedals like others do. It's certainly not the best instrument to gig with, but not bad at home. So it's not the question of getting an advanced instrument in the first place, but moreover to get an instrument that will help you advance yourself - which may be related, but isn't necessarily.
Last edited by FZiegler on 25 Oct 2022, 02:04, edited 2 times in total.
Spider wrote:All your questions are exhaustively answered on the website and the manuals, that you can find in the "downloads" section
yes, like sometimes I ask a physics question on a physics forum and somebody will tell me all my questions are in the physics textbook which is 1100 pages
Welcome. To be fair, the questions you asked are covered on the very first page of the Nord Piano 5 manual right after the table of contents, the Specifications page on the website, and the Nord Piano Library information page on the website.
FREE SOUNDS
Since the Nord Piano 5 is designed as an open system, each and every piano and sample in the Nord Piano 5 can be replaced. This is done using the Nord Sound Manager software which is available as a free download from our website.
The Nord Piano 5 is compatible with the extensive Nord Piano Library and the Nord Sample Library. As new sounds become available, these can be downloaded for free from the Sound Libraries section of our website.
DIFFERENT SIZES
All of our Uprights and Grand Pianos are available in multiple sizes. All the Pianos in the Nord Piano Library uses our special Loss-less compression technology that lets us fit much more information without sacrificing sound quality. Also, all versions of our pianos are adjusted by ear to ensure maximal dynamic response and playability. This is part of what makes our Pianos one of the best sounding and most realistic in the world – regardless of file size.
XL The Extra Large versions
Fully mapped keyboard
String Resonance: pedal-down samples for entire keyboard range
Detailed velocity mapping
Stereo sampled
L The Large versions
String Resonance: pedal-down samples for entire keyboard range
Detailed velocity mapping
Stereo sampled
M The Medium versions
String Resonance: pedal-down samples in the important middle region of the range
Detailed velocity mapping
Stereo sampled
S The Small versions
Detailed velocity mapping
Stereo sampled
I think you know very well that those info do not answer my questions, if you read my questions carefully. The size answer, alright, but it is like you have to know the answer to know that such info exists and know where to find it. Other questions were not answered in those text. How do you have the conscience to press Submit to say they answered the questions?
Last edited by ryaneuler on 25 Oct 2022, 05:11, edited 1 time in total.
ryaneuler wrote:
I haven't got the Piano 5 or the Nord Grand yet... I think the Piano 5 is a Fatar keyboard and I was hoping to get a more advanced keyboard... and then later on I found it probably has the same keyboard as Kawai's ES920? I was thinking of a VPC1 keyboard or the one in MP11SE... but I tried an MP11SE in a showroom and it was a bit heavy keys. I tried the acoustic SK-EX Grand and the Kawai CA59 and the keys are very light to press down... so I am a bit unsure right now.
Yours is not the first time I’ve read concerns about key weight, with the ultimate end of mimicking what you’re already used to. It would be nice to know what your “gold standard’ is, otherwise these comparisons remain only in your own head, which isn’t enough for us to go on.
Regardless, it’s been my experience that I can always adjust my own touch to adjust to any reasonable instrument (including all those you listed) to achieve the musical ideas I desire. The key is listening to yourself while paying attention to your own proprioception. It may take more than one session or more to adapt, but humans are nothing if not adaptable.
Last edited by PScooter63 on 25 Oct 2022, 05:50, edited 1 time in total.
FZiegler wrote:I've been looking for the best stage piano for quite a while. And I'm sure you never will get one if you don't:
a) make sure you know what you are looking for: what exactly do you want to do?
b) go to show rooms multiple times until you are at ease with one product. If it has the best keyboard or sound generator or user interface or whatever thing or not...
I think there is plenty of free space for new programs made on your own in a new Nord, but not much space left for samples. So you will need to delete or exchange samples to get new ones on the board. But don't worry: There's nothing that isn't on the Nord website to download again.
BTW the Nord Piano 5 (some sort of Fatar TP/40) certainly doesn't have the same keybed as the Kawai ES920. And the Kawai keybed inside the Nord Grand isn't the same as any other Kawai product's - as it isn't graded and doesn't have an escapement (as far as I know). I now own a Kawai VPC1, and it has issues with the pedals like others do. It's certainly not the best instrument to gig with, but not bad at home. So it's not the question of getting an advanced instrument in the first place, but moreover to get an instrument that will help you advance yourself - which may be related, but isn't necessarily.
Yes, I think also the best way is to try out the pianos... at first, I didn't even know what to try out and what to look for. There was a nice salesperson who told me keystick length is important. He told me I can make sure if the key is pressed down very near the felt part, still there is good pivot length. Some more basic keyboard has good pivot length near the key edge near the piano player, but once you get to near the felt area, the pivot length shrinks to 1/2 or 1/3, and it is not easy to press down the keys. (both black and white keys). So the salesperson told me if I could, go for pivot length of 2 (times) as the other side of the pivot... or at least 1 time. which is more possible in console pianos. He also asked me to try the Kawai SK-EX and EX acoustic grand pianos, a Kawai upright, a CA59, MP11SE, ES920, ES520, and see how they feel. (It is a Kawai showroom and has no other brands). The CA59 and SK-EX keys are really easy to press down, even near the felt area. I thought MP11SE has a better keyboard than VPC1, but to my surprise, it felt heavy to press down the keys.
And then his boss told me it will be more ideal if you press and release a key, but only release it 1/2 or 1/3, and press down again, and will I get a note. I later found out from PianoManChuck that it means it has triple sensors, and the sensor in the middle is to pick up the signal that you released it half way. If there is no such signal, then there is no way to tell how fast you hit the sensor at the bottom in order to tell the speed, and so the system abandons the note all together. So this is what the boss means by releasing it 1/2 or a bit, and see if I can press down now to trigger a sound. However, such as the new Casio PX-S7000 portable flagship, they have double sensors only, but they claim they don't need triple sensors to accomplish the same goal: I am thinking they don't need the top sensor. Theoretically, all they need is the middle sensor and the bottom sensor, and if they can gather the time difference between the key passing point A and point B and is able to get the duration to a few decimal digits, such as 0.00023 seconds, even if the two sensor are near the end of the striking point and is only 1mm apart, then we know the velocity. It probably should be in the old days, they cannot measure the time so precise and accurately, so that's why they need triple sensors. In the old days, they cannot work with 1mm, so they need the whole 1cm for example, so that when the duration is not precise and accurate to a few decimal places, they can still calculate the velocity. But once they can get the time measurement precise and accurate to a few decimal places, 1mm or 2mm may be all they need, near the final striking point.
Due to Covid, it is just harder to go places and the Guitar Center (with pianos) I visited does not have that many models to try out. I think in a 50 to 200 mile radius, I probably cannot find a Roland FP-90X or Nord Piano 5 or Nord Grand to try out. That's the tough part. I saw some people just go ahead and order it and say if they don't like it after 25 days, they will return it, but it is not something I want to do.
From many demos on YouTube, the Nord Piano 5 and Nord Grand has some of the best sounds. PianoManChuck also said he likes his Nord Piano 4 or 5 the most (or one of his favorites)... the sound, even at 200MB, seems to beat some other sounds I have heard, which requires easily 25GB per mic (the Vienna Symphonic Library VSL). I have downloaded the Full version of a piano, and it took close to 250GB or 300GB, and it still didn't sound as good as the 200MB version on the Nord. But since Nord has a size limit: 2GB, so that gets me worried how much I can download and store in the piano at the same time. Maybe that's how Nord manage the royalty issue: that the users cannot have too many of them... so the assumption is that they may have about 10 on the piano. So at first, it is a bit confusing as to, you can download some, but they are also factory installed. Well, so, do they count as part of the 2GB already, or does that mean after the factory install, it is still 2GB free? By asking questions, it is how people say, "oh it really works like this: ______" and that's how I found out the the pivot length, the sensors issue, and other things. Those people certainly did not say, "the info you should know about is all on the Internet." If they want to, they can use this answer for any person, for any question they ask: "it is out on the Internet", even if the answer is that there is no solution to the current issue or question.
And PianoManChuck did mention that Nord uses Fatar, and Piano 5 is not using the TP/40 Wood or TP/400 Wood, which is possible in SL88 Grand or Numa GT. But he said Nord actually tweaks the Fatar keyboards to make them better. I also noticed some top players, including one on YouTube, has an SK-EX grand and Steinway grand, and she also has a Piano 4, so it probably says something. (does Piano 5 have a Fatar TP/100?) But regardless, seems like people are quite happy with their Piano 4 or 5 keyboard, and since Nord Grand is more expensive, I suppose it has an even better keyboard.
As to what I need... you know, requirements change over time, even in a matter of months. But currently, it is to practice good classical music with action similar to acoustic, and at the same time, able to try out different piano sounds. So a $4000 acoustic piano is out of the question. I also need to move the piano from upstairs to downstairs when it is hot in the summer when upstairs can be 35°C and downstairs can be 28°C... and move back to upstairs when during the winter, downstairs is like 20°C and upstairs is like 22°C... also I might need to move overseas... otherwise I would just bite the bullet and get a CA59, CA79, or CA99, or CLP-785 for their closest to acoustic action.
Last edited by ryaneuler on 25 Oct 2022, 06:24, edited 11 times in total.
