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Re: Next version of MacOS probably doesn't support Sound Man

Postby analogika » 20 Aug 2019, 14:19

emelenjr wrote:I appreciate your replies, all. Thanks for calling out my tone where it deserved calling out.

I regret that the conversation generally went off the rails, One thing I could have done to prevent that would have been to explain my argument a little more carefully. Just to clarify a few things:

1. I don't have the luxury of having a dedicated laptop for my music rig. I've needed to keep this laptop current for many reasons. I was well aware of the 32-bit limitations of the Nord apps before I upgraded, but decided the tradeoff was worth it. I fully understand why others may resist upgrading, but I weighed my options and decided to join the beta anyway.

This, I simply do not understand. "Keeping it current" means being at 10.14.6.

Running a beta is not "current"; it is running ahead of the curve. There should be absolutely no reason to do so unless you are fully prepared to deal with stuff not running, which would make all of your posts in this thread redundant.

2. I do not and never have believed that Clavia should provide support for an unreleased OS. But the issue I'm experiencing where the Nord apps won't run on my Mac is not even due to me running a beta release. It's due to the OS's 64-bit app requirement. Let me explain my reasoning:

[a bunch of completely circular logic deleted]

THERE IS NO 64-BIT REQUIREMENT ON macOS.

There simply is not. macOS does not require any apps to be fully 64-bit, at this point.

There WILL be a 64-bit requirement if you need to stay current with your OS updates, come September or October or whenever Catalina is released.

Until then, any reasoning that is based upon the claim that macOS "requires" 64-bit apps is just utterly baseless.
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Re: Next version of MacOS probably doesn't support Sound Man


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Re: Next version of MacOS probably doesn't support Sound Man

Postby Gambold » 20 Aug 2019, 17:08

I work as a network manager in a school district, and have done so for almost 25 years. I can say that one of the most long-standing annoying parts of my job has been chasing Macintosh releases and making sure things continued to work with every new iteration of their software AND hardware.

Personally I'd rather see Clavia spend their development time and $$ on creating Sound Manager interfaces for iOS and Chromebooks, and connecting to the Nord wirelessly. I can connect to my Crumar Mojo via wireless and a URL. Granted, the interface is more primitive but still, there it is, and I can also run it off my iPhone, an IPad, or a Chromebook.

I'm not sure Sound Manager could be burned into the motherboard and updated via firmware (like the Mojo's config software), but it would be nice if Clavia was looking into that. Sod retooling for the next Mac laptop OS. Laptops are going the way of the dodo anyway, especially in a live music environment.
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Re: Next version of MacOS probably doesn't support Sound Man

Postby GuiliClayder » 20 Aug 2019, 21:52

Catalina will be released in September, not that long now.
It's not just Nord, Korg as well. They say that they are 'considering' 64-bit support for their existing software and drivers, but that all new and upcoming software will support 64-bit.
As for the existing stuff, the fact that they are 'considering' it basically means that we're screwed...

As for simply not upgrading to the new Mac OS, that's not an option for a lot of people. We don't all use our Macs just for leisure...
Anyway, if even Nord can't be bothered, the new Mac version is going to take a lot of keyboard players by surprise, as most people don't even know the difference between 32 or 64 bit.
The software that comes with a board is not a must-have for the most part ; it's the drivers I'm worried about.

Korg requires drivers to work on the Mac, so does Roland. What about Nord ? Suppose you connect your Mac to a new Nord Grand : will the Mac recognize the keyboard, and vice versa ? Do you actually need drivers for a Nord keyboard ?
Will updating the board using the new Mac OS still work ? In any case, swapping or adding sounds will no longer be possible, unless there is a 64-bit version of the Sound Manager ready to be released...
Last edited by GuiliClayder on 20 Aug 2019, 21:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Next version of MacOS probably doesn't support Sound Man

Postby Mr_-G- » 20 Aug 2019, 22:09

Please read the whole thread and you will find out about Nord's plans for the 64bit Mac versions. There are no drivers needed for the Mac (see the downloads section of the Nord site, only Windows needs a USB driver).
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Re: Next version of MacOS probably doesn't support Sound Man

Postby cgrafx » 20 Aug 2019, 22:42

GuiliClayder wrote:As for simply not upgrading to the new Mac OS, that's not an option for a lot of people. We don't all use our Macs just for leisure...


B***S**t. That is exactly an option. There isn't anybody that has to upgrade to the newer OS when its released.

There isn't a single application from any vendor that requires any existing Mac user to upgrade to the newest version of the OS nor is it recommended by any reputable IT department or company before all software has be tested and vetted.

The only people that will be directly affected by this for easily 12-18 months will be people purchasing a new computer (who obviously don't have the option of sticking with the older OS release).

Nobody is forcing you to upgrade, nor is there any legitimate reason to rush to do so.
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Re: Next version of MacOS probably doesn't support Sound Man

Postby PScooter63 » 21 Aug 2019, 04:24

Gambold wrote:I can say that one of the most long-standing annoying parts of my job has been chasing Macintosh releases and making sure things continued to work with every new iteration of their software AND hardware.

What things?

(On another subject, CountFosco wins the thread.)
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Re: Next version of MacOS probably doesn't support Sound Man

Postby GuiliClayder » 21 Aug 2019, 08:08

cgrafx wrote:
GuiliClayder wrote:As for simply not upgrading to the new Mac OS, that's not an option for a lot of people. We don't all use our Macs just for leisure...


B***S**t. That is exactly an option. There isn't anybody that has to upgrade to the newer OS when its released.

There isn't a single application from any vendor that requires any existing Mac user to upgrade to the newest version of the OS nor is it recommended by any reputable IT department or company before all software has be tested and vetted.

The only people that will be directly affected by this for easily 12-18 months will be people purchasing a new computer (who obviously don't have the option of sticking with the older OS release).

Nobody is forcing you to upgrade, nor is there any legitimate reason to rush to do so.


I always upgrade to the newest version about two months after release. Do I absolutely need to ? No, but I want to be able to use and enjoy the new features that the new OS offers.
And I don't want to compromise on that level and simply accept the fact that Nord or Korg or any other brand just can't be bothered to upgrade their software so that you can continue to fully enjoy your keyboard that cost you thousands...

Now, on the other hand, I'm sure everything will be fine, but 'not upgrading' is not an option, in my book.
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Re: Next version of MacOS probably doesn't support Sound Man

Postby CountFosco » 21 Aug 2019, 08:11

Cheers PScooter, just trying to keep it light. After all, we're mostly just a bunch of people with a similar hobby or profession. This thread started out as "I wonder what's gonna happen when....", before battle lines were drawn and the generals shouted "ready, aim, p!ss into the wind!"
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Re: Next version of MacOS probably doesn't support Sound Man

Postby GuiliClayder » 21 Aug 2019, 08:27

cgrafx wrote:
GuiliClayder wrote:As for simply not upgrading to the new Mac OS, that's not an option for a lot of people. We don't all use our Macs just for leisure...


B***S**t. That is exactly an option. There isn't anybody that has to upgrade to the newer OS when its released.

There isn't a single application from any vendor that requires any existing Mac user to upgrade to the newest version of the OS nor is it recommended by any reputable IT department or company before all software has be tested and vetted.

The only people that will be directly affected by this for easily 12-18 months will be people purchasing a new computer (who obviously don't have the option of sticking with the older OS release).

Nobody is forcing you to upgrade, nor is there any legitimate reason to rush to do so.


I always upgrade to the newest version about two months after release. Do I absolutely need to ? No, but I want to be able to use and enjoy the new features that the new OS offers.
And I don't want to compromise on that level and simply accept the fact that Nord or Korg or any other brand just can't be bothered to upgrade their software so that you can continue to fully enjoy your keyboard that cost you thousands...

Now, on the other hand, I'm sure everything will be fine, but 'not upgrading' is not an option, in my book.

Edit : if Kawai can do it, then why not Nord, or Korg ? Their VPC editor, for a keyboard that's been out for years now, already supports 64-bit. As a customer, this shows me that Kawai is ahead of the game. You don't need Mac drivers for a Kawai board but the Windows drivers are available in both 32 and 64 bit versions...
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Re: Next version of MacOS probably doesn't support Sound Man

Postby cgrafx » 21 Aug 2019, 09:31

GilliClayder,

its not a question of compromise, its a question of reality.

If you want to upgrade by all means do so, but its on you and don't whine when critical tools you need don't work.

those of us that have been in the trenches know better than to upgrade anything until those tools have been tested and proven to work as advertised/needed.

Why, because they are tools not playthings, and critical software that is used for real work doesn't always follow the upgrade path of the OS. In fact sometimes OS upgrades will fundamentally change the underlying core resources so radically that upgrades are not possible without completely re-writing the application (which may mean the software will never work with the newer OS).

In other cases upgrades aren't really upgrades as key functionality can be compromised or removed.

Newer is not by default better.
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