NAMM 2024

[Gambold]

>but also has all the cool features I like (see above) and is only 37% of the price!<

Yes, Clavia is pricing itself out of relevance. Oh, if you're a university or professional or a studio sure, you'll keep buying them. But the cost differential between Nords and the rest of the bunch is becoming too extreme, even for Nord's reputation and build-quality.

This is a company that has never really come back from Covid. R&D seems to be non-existent, and the post-Covid keyboards have been light upgrades from existing models, with not-so-light price bumps.

But take heart, there are ever-new videos of Jesus Molina playing his free Stage 4 on the webpage.

[maxpiano]

But take heart, there are ever-new videos of Jesus Molina playing his free Stage 4 on the webpage.

(last video on Nordkeyboards.com)

[BBvideo=425,350]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uhoTEDtkIo[/BBvideo]

I remember Jesus Molina was looking a little different...

[Ecaroh]

This is a company that has never really come back from Covid. R&D seems to be non-existent, and the post-Covid keyboards have been light upgrades from existing models, with not-so-light price bumps.

I am afraid I have to agree with this. With my new NS4 at home I have to also add that with my quite long history with their products I have never bought so half finished and badly thought ”update” to flagship line. Yes all stage models did not come out 100% functional or finished product but NS4 has been a really disappointment. If you don’t believe just read Bug Sheet and note all the unfixed issues. There are plenty of them and they aren’t minor ones. And if you put obvious bugs aside the whole architechture is badly thought and in fact there are many aspects which makes it much worse than its predecessor. I know because I still have NS3 and use it all the time. In fact in my current setup I cannot use NS4 and it waits for better days. Only thing which I am very happy with NS4 is its 73 keyboard. It’s much better than earlier 76 or horrible HA portable (HP).

But this was not that much about NS4 but Clavia’s new company strategy or better say lack of it. If they rise prices for whatever reason and reach top of the highest priced products it’s ok BUT only if they deliver highest quality as well. With NS4 being an example quality has gone even downwards.

[ericL]

I missed the NAMM Show this year, which is something I typically attend annually over the past ~20 years. Covid knocked the NAMM schedule out of whack a few years and I went last year when they had it in April. It felt to me like I had just been there and so I decided to take a year off and return in 2025.

I don't think much was missed this year. Korg appears to have been the one to beat in terms of sheer volume of new and various products.

I enjoyed playing the NS4 at NAMM 2023. I'm holding tight on any notion to upgrade from my NS3 rig to NS4, based on the same reasons I did this between NS2 and NS3. Nord takes a bit to get things fully stable in these flagship models. Which sounds like a travesty, though for a small company it appears to be the norm.

Regardless of this release process, and the perception of higher cost, I have been extremely pleased with my evolution of Nord gear over the years and it has definitely paid for itself MANY TIMES over. I toured with the NS2 from 2011 through 2018 and have been using the the NS3 from 2018 to present. That's a lot of years of reliable use and I still have things I'm learning on these instruments.

I kept my original NS2 88 (first one to arrive in the USA) and it serves me well in my studio.

[Walker31415]

The reason why Nord hasn't been competitive and innovating is because they literally have NO competition in their product category.
There are NO keyboards that compete on the level of the Stage 4 (Granular control, individual effects chains, 7 parts, load pianos and samples), so as a result, we get shoddy(er) firmware and a decrease in build quality. (See: Nord doesn't bother to do a simple change that would allow catch rather than jump faders, the "plasticky" drawbars...
So they can still sell this at an astounding price cause there's nothing that can compete.

At the Grand level, the only company that has actually innovated to match Nord is Korg, with their Grandstage. Hopefully more companies decide to compete in the "Nord Grand" category but as it is it is a very low volume market and there's not much to "innovate" in that area.

At the Electro level and Piano Level, Nord gets easily beat by companies like Yamaha and Roland. This is where their brand identity kicks in to cover for enough sales to keep those lines alive.

This is evidenced by the fact that at NAMM, they only had a few Nord Grands and a few Nord Stage 4s. They had one Wave 2 on a stand that had no cables plugged in, which I'm guessing they only used for the live demos. Bummer, cause I really wanted to play that.
These are the only products they want to push because they are the only ones making them.

[analogika]

See: Nord doesn't bother to do a simple change that would allow catch rather than jump faders

Since this has been on the wish list since the Stage 3 did away with LED encoders in 2017, and Clavia "bothered" to do a WHOLE lot more changes in the Stage 4 that took considerably more effort, it's pretty safe to assume that they don't want to do a "simple change" that isn't as simple as you make it.

There are a number of considerations: You need to add a setting to make the behaviour switchable. Do you want it switchable per program, or system-wide? Do you use it for ALL front settings? Is it catch, or relative scaling? Depending on which setting (distortion or instrument volume or filter cutoff or reverb depth), different settings may be useful.

If you implement it for ALL pots, you still cannot have it affect the master volume pot. That is always absolute, and never saved as part of the program. So then you have ONE pot that works completely differently from all other pots on the machine, but looks exactly the same. That's a terrific user-interface no-go.

Just because you want it doesn't mean you've thought it through, or that it's in any way "easy" to do, I'm afraid.

[Gambold]

>The reason why Nord hasn't been competitive and innovating is because they literally have NO competition in their product category.
There are NO keyboards that compete on the level of the Stage 4<

That is still the party line, of course. We're number one so we don't try harder. But methinks the party is losing its appeal. The Electro is a gateway to the Stage for many new buyers - if they are going to lose that market, they are going to lose future Stage buyers. As for all the special features exclusive to the Stage - well, once you hit $6000 with tax in the US market, those better be VERY special. Be honest...are they still, here in 2024??

[Walker31415]

If you implement it for ALL pots, you still cannot have it affect the master volume pot. That is always absolute, and never saved as part of the program. So then you have ONE pot that works completely differently from all other pots on the machine, but looks exactly the same. That's a terrific user-interface no-go.

Actually @analogica, the Yamaha CK88 has that exactly in that way: you can set all pots/faders to work in a "catch" mode instead of "jump" (default), but of course master volume will not be affected and to me it is not a bad implementation, I find it useful and at least better than having no option ("jump only")

[catosim]

If you implement it for ALL pots, you still cannot have it affect the master volume pot. That is always absolute, and never saved as part of the program. So then you have ONE pot that works completely differently from all other pots on the machine, but looks exactly the same. That's a terrific user-interface no-go.

Just because you want it doesn't mean you've thought it through, or that it's in any way "easy" to do, I'm afraid.

To be fair, this has been a menu-option on the Access Virus (cath-fader vs jump-fader) for decades (the master volume not affected). These machines and firmware are from the 90ies, so it shouldn't be that big a deal to implement on 2020ies firmware.
However I'm not that much bothered over the lack of the function, I'm very pleased with the Nord stage (both 3 and 4).

Bottom line is that people should read the specs BEFORE buying such an expensive peace of gear, instead of crying about everything they want different.
The massive FX-capabilities was the deal-breaker for me, despite the loss of the independent extern-section.

[Rusty Mike]

Not sure I agree with either extreme. Nord is unique in their approach and it has had some decent appeal. But, they are a closed company and we have no real insight into their mindset - the best we can do is speculate based on our perceptions.

I would dismiss the hubris thing. Like any company selling a product they are focused on how to sustain/increase sales within the constraints of their resources. They have a formula that currently works and won't likely stray from their architecture. It looks to me like they want to expand their presence in the worship market, based on their featured artists. It's a good target client base for high-cost instruments, as Hammond has had a lot of success there. At the same time, it's a bit self-fulfilling; being able to sell their product for a high price only supports the high price.

With regard to the lack of competition, I have a few thoughts.

First, every manufacturer would like to think they have a unique approach with no competition. They all have also relied on their flavor of platform architectures which go back many years, and new products are evolutions of those original platforms. Every workstation from Roland, Korg and Yamaha follow this formula and I'm sure will continue to do so for many years to come. Kurzweil's platform architecture goes back to the 1990's and recent products are just evolutions and permutations of those original innovations.

Nord is no different; they have their platform/engines and simply evolve those as time goes along. Where they tend to differentiate is with their approach to UI, and that is what I think they like to consider their secret sauce. That and the high quality of the piano library. Do they fall short in other areas? Yup, most certainly. The organ/rotary engine has not been touched in years, they still only have single layer samples with no velocity switching, their selection of keyboard actions are not perfect. Many people are turned off by the red color for whatever reason. And then there is the price premium.

I also think their competition is gaining pace. Hammond (which has enjoyed access to the worship & praise market) has the SKX product line which includes AP, EP and synth capabilities in addition to the organ. Granted, the pianos are nowhere near as good as Nord's, but Hammond is making an effort. Yamaha's new CP and YC products are pretty worthy competitors with a very identical approach to the use case and UI (and the YC supports 9th drawbar cancel!). Several Korg pianos (SV-1/2, Grandstage line) have that immediate UI approach. The UI on the Studiologic Numa X pianos are pretty nice too.

So, is Nord perfect? Nope. Are they going out of business? Most likely not anytime soon. Are they going to stray from the formula that has made them successful? Probably not. But, unless one of us is in the boardroom and are willing to violate NDAs to spill company secrets, it is unlikely we will know the truth. We can only entertain ourselves and each other from the passenger seat of the car.

I've mentioned it before in this forum - If you don't like the product (or the company), you are free to buy something else.