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Decisions, decisions (Piano Library)

Postby themixtape » 21 Feb 2018, 22:15

Man, I can never decide exactly what I want as large/medium/XL.. haha (this is for Stage 3 with 2GB).

Does anyone prefer a specific XL to its Large equivalent? The only one I can see as definite would be the Bambino. Only 124mb and sounds wonderful. I also do dig the Royal as XL.

Some people prefer Imperial as L instead of XL, for a lot of reasons.

Does anyone go with Medium instead of L? Especially if you don't need much of those low notes resonating sympathetically? Most of the pianos have the resonance applied to the D two octaves below middle C, to about F or F#, under the Delay section. Which is a good range, for most pieces of music.

I try to get ALL the pianos in there if I can... (the grands/uprights). Don't always need the harpsi or most Rhodes...).. it's a struggle, for sure.

Although this list changes daily... I have to say my favorite Grands are: Royal, Studio Grand 2, Velvet, Bright. Favorite Uprights are: Bambino, Amber, Black, Rain, and Mellow.

Some of my least favorite: Italian (too basic, I think?), Lady D (nice-sounding but can't get mellow/soft with it)... Silver (too modern, I guess)... and then for the Uprights-- I used to love the Queen but it's probably my least favorite. Honky Tonk only for certain styles (I use the small-- can't ever see the Honky Tonk being played with sustain pedal down, most of the time)... Romantic is nice but I think the Rain is more suitable... the Grand Upright is really nice, though... it has such clarity when you dig in, but it can be soft and melancholy, too.

Just wondering all your thoughts?

I'm just doing a lot of mental math... pencil/paper stuff.

The XLs that I usually keep in are: Royal, Bambino, Amber.... and then I can't decide what I want as the 4th XL (with most of the other pianos as Larges or Mediums)... Grand Imperial? Velvet? Mellow? Grand Upright?

Haha... any help is appreciated! Also, I should note that I do a lot of sad/pretty/slow stuff... and record more, and/or practice with headphones, than I do playing live (I understand that Mediums at largest can be used live, because the sympathetic resonance never is really heard--- and reverb is often a good substitute for resonance, in a live setting).

Thanks!!!
Last edited by themixtape on 22 Feb 2018, 00:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Decisions, decisions (Piano Library)


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Re: Decisions, decisions (Piano Library)

Postby fieldflower » 21 Feb 2018, 23:17

On the sample size question...
I did some AB:ing on some of them to find out what I liked and I found the Medium and Large to be almost impossible to tell apart, but the XL had a lot more life than the Large with the individual key samples.
So I have nothing in Large anymore - one or two XL and the rest Medium.

The one I really enjoy having in XL is the 3D grand.
When playing with headphones the combination of the 3D recording and individual key samples is amazing.

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Re: Decisions, decisions (Piano Library)

Postby OrpheusNY » 22 Feb 2018, 17:44

For what it’s worth, the approach I’ve settled on is fewer samples, higher quality, as I think the subtle differences between the various samples get lost once they go through amplification and are played in an ensemble setting, but I want the highest quality sound for those moments I’m playing alone, which can even come up in a band setting.

So I think I have almost all XL and L samples:

A dark expressive grand (Royal) and a brighter grand (Silver).

An all around beautiful upright sample (Amber) a bright rock and roll upright (Baby), an effected mellow upright (Mellow) and a tack upright (Honky Tonk).

Then maybe four of the Rhodes, one Wurly, one FM the CP 80 sample, and one layered EP and I can pretty much cover the waterfront with 1 GB.

Your favorites in each category might be different, but I recommend trying the less is more approach.

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Re: Decisions, decisions (Piano Library)

Postby themixtape » 22 Feb 2018, 18:22

Good advice! Yeah, less is more, totally. But I'm one of those people who hears a new piano when I change to it... and I'm like "oh MAN... THIS is so good TOO...." haha.

The way I did my Stage 3 last night:
XLs - Royal, Velvet, Bambino, Amber, Grand Up, Mellow... the rest, medium (everything except Baby, which... while I like it, I don't find it as inspiring as the others)... I also have the Concert Grand Ambient in there, too (medium). All the Rhodes except EP7, and I got rid of the new Digigrands, and other 80s-sounding grands (though the Ballad1 and Ballad2 are gorgeous). I hear you though about the less-is-more thing... it's just so hard to decide. All of these tones/timbres are inspiring in their own ways.

Still feel the Italian is so bland/vanilla... it's hard being inspired by that one. Grand Imperial is almost too "perfect"... bell-like... it's great but I guess I gravitate toward the warmer/darker piano tones... totally agree that the Amber is all-around beautiful.
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Re: Decisions, decisions (Piano Library)

Postby themixtape » 22 Feb 2018, 18:24

fieldflower wrote:On the sample size question...
I did some AB:ing on some of them to find out what I liked and I found the Medium and Large to be almost impossible to tell apart, but the XL had a lot more life than the Large with the individual key samples.
So I have nothing in Large anymore - one or two XL and the rest Medium.

The one I really enjoy having in XL is the 3D grand.
When playing with headphones the combination of the 3D recording and individual key samples is amazing.


This is also great advice. I'm definitely an A-B person... I've done a ton of comparing... they are almost impossible to tell apart, indeed. XL has more life... but in certain dynamic levels, it's EXACTLY the same as a medium (soft playing), at least from my ears... but when you play a bit harder and/or "bite" some notes... the XL is a huge difference. If only all Nords could be expanded to 4GB with a simple modification... we could fit everything in the Piano Library as XL and L....
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Re: Decisions, decisions (Piano Library)

Postby anotherscott » 22 Feb 2018, 20:58

themixtape wrote:This is also great advice. I'm definitely an A-B person... I've done a ton of comparing... they are almost impossible to tell apart, indeed. XL has more life... but in certain dynamic levels, it's EXACTLY the same as a medium (soft playing), at least from my ears

As I understand it, XL means every note is sampled (or at least almost every note, that has never been made perfectly clear, as far as I've seen), whereas the others stretch samples over adjacent keys. For argument's sake, let's say that for S/M/L, they sample 1 out of every 3 keys. That means that, for 1 out of every 3 keys, playing a single note with no pedal, you should hear no difference at all between S, M, L and XL. If other keys (or the pedal) are down, then if we restrict playing to the middle section of the keyboard (where everything except S supports sting resonances), then still, 1 out of every 3 keys should sound exactly the same among the M, L, and XL versions. L and XL add the strong resonances at the extremes, and XL will sound different from any of the others for 2 out of very 3 keys. (The figures were just to illustrate the concept... it's actually 1 out of some number of keys which could even be variable, as they mat "skip" sampling different numbers of keys in different areas of the keyboard.)
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Re: Decisions, decisions (Piano Library)

Postby baekgaard » 23 Feb 2018, 00:20

anotherscott wrote:That means that, for 1 out of every 3 keys, playing a single note with no pedal, you should hear no difference at all between S, M, L and XL.


Almost, but not entirely :-)

If the S, M or L sample stretches a C# to nearby C and D, and you play a D, then the XL sample will play a sampled D from the piano, whereas the S, M and L sample may play a stretched C#. They are in most cases probably very very similar, but due to the built-in slight un-evenness of the pianos sampled, you may accidentally have one "off" key that now suddenly sounds over 3 notes.

So in practice you could have a "dull" key (or something) on the C#, and if you play the C# in S, M, L and XL, there will be no difference. But if you play the D, then they will sound very differently.

Chords MAY also sound differently if several notes using the same underlying sample sound simultaneously, unless there is some "random" variation in the loop section -- which it nevertheless appears Nord employs at least for Synth based samples.
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Re: Decisions, decisions (Piano Library)

Postby anotherscott » 23 Feb 2018, 13:58

baekgaard wrote:
anotherscott wrote:That means that, for 1 out of every 3 keys, playing a single note with no pedal, you should hear no difference at all between S, M, L and XL.


Almost, but not entirely :-)

If the S, M or L sample stretches a C# to nearby C and D, and you play a D, then the XL sample will play a sampled D from the piano, whereas the S, M and L sample may play a stretched C#.

Maybe I didn't explain myself well enough, but we are saying the exact same thing. To use your example, if the C# is stretched to the adjacent C and D on the S/M/L (whereas they use three different samples on the XL), then for one out of those three notes (the C#), you should hear no difference at all among the different sample sets (pedal up, no other keys held). For the other two notes, you would hear a difference, as the S/M/L pianos are playing a stretched sample (from the C#) while the XL is playing a true sample (of the exact note played on the original piano). If Nord were to use the same 1-stretched-to-3 approach throughout the keyboard, then one third of the keys would sound the same among the models (played in this manner), while 2 out of 3 would sound different. The point being, how similar or different the XL sounds from the others depends on which keys you're comparing, since they will be using the same samples on some keys, but different samples on others.
Last edited by anotherscott on 24 Feb 2018, 20:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Decisions, decisions (Piano Library)

Postby kirsty » 24 Feb 2018, 18:29

Ive gone through this dilemma so many times. The sample choices are so great it leaves you spoilt for choice and debating on which to use for what.

My grand section is
Lady D (L) usually my main goto for live accompaniment with just a singer.
Grand Imperial (L) - I like to play it at home rather than live, prefer L to XL, although cant put my finger on why. Seems more aggressive in L?
Studio Grand 1 C7 Large (prefer to the Studio 2 as it has that bit more bite to the sound)
'Concert Steinway - a mixed piano I made by using the Ambient Concert Grand (L) upto C2 and the Close Concert (L) for the upper section... I find the Ambient sounds gorgeous low, and is unplayable higher up so this is my compromise and love playing this at home for various solo stuff.
Bright (L) for when theres a few of us and i wanna cut over a band
Silver (XL) - started using this live and others seems to be saying... thats a lovely piano sound. Its so bright im still not sure yet though.
Royal 3D (L) - my goto if i play with headphones when the family are asleep ;)

Uprights
Amber (XL) - Just beautiful
Grand U3 (L) - Love the different dynamics

I do like other samples but the above i enjoy playing more so they dont usually stay.

I dislike
Velvet - sounds so lifeless and flat to my ears
Italian - sounds too twangy..? best i can use to describe this. Doesn't get better no matter which S to XL i use.

I guess this is all going to be very individual, and some folks will love the samples I dont. That the beauty of the Nord and having the choice compared to other manufacturers. :)

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Re: Decisions, decisions (Piano Library)

Postby themixtape » 24 Feb 2018, 19:18

Thanks for the detailed reply, Kirsty! Yes, I would agree with your choices by and large, except the Velvet... I don't know. I LOVE that piano. Haha. Something about it. It gets bell-like when you dig in (not as much as the Imperial or Lady D) but it's so WARM when played softly.

I'm messing around yet again with my Sound Manager.. haha. Just cannot decide.
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