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Re: Decisions, decisions (Piano Library)

Postby monsterjazzlicks » 08 Feb 2020, 17:36

Rusty Mike wrote:If you're running a pair of speakers in stereo, I'm not sure of the value of using the Mono button. In my experience, the overall sound is richer running in stereo.

I'm sure your sound profile will be much different between the DXR's and the Cube amps. The Cubes have a more limited frequency range, are engineered to emphasize midrange and are less powerful when compared to the DXR's. You may need to keep different programs with different EQ settings depending on the amp setup you're using.

Just a thought.

Hi Mike,

As I mention, I did not try the mono button on the gig. But as you say, I suppose it kinda defeats the object of lugging two amps to a gig!, unless you need separate amps placed extreme distances apart.

The Roland Cubes are not a patch on the Yamaha DXR's, though they are extremely convenient and light/small to carry. I mainly bought them for small venues, but with a view to still playing the Nord in stereo. It is worth noting that even playing against a 17 piece big band last week I still had plenty of volume in reserve. I run through the 'clean' channel and bypass any EQ. Rhodes and Hammond sound amazing, but pianos do need attention - hence this thread.

Paul
Last edited by monsterjazzlicks on 08 Feb 2020, 17:37, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Decisions, decisions (Piano Library)


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Re: Decisions, decisions (Piano Library)

Postby harmonizer » 08 Feb 2020, 18:39

monsterjazzlicks wrote:... Yes, I do find (as with most synths) that everything sounds so much more amazing when listening in headphones? Why is this, please? Often I have played sounds that sound fantastic (in phones) then weak and thin through an amp. It's soul destroying!

Cheers.


In any sound production system the speakers are almost always the limiting factor in what quality of sound is produced. In the example of a home stereo system, if you spend $100 on your amplifier/receiver and $500 on the speakers, the speakers will introduce more error than the amp. Once you switch to headphones, you are using a "speaker" category for which it is much easier to build one for little money that creates excellent fidelity. In general a $100 pair of headphones will produce higher sound fidelity than a $500 pair of stereo speakers - the headphones represent a much easier technical challenge to solve.

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Re: Decisions, decisions (Piano Library)

Postby Mr_-G- » 08 Feb 2020, 18:42

Hi Paul, see this message and the rest of the thread:
nord-stage-forum-f3/the-dreaded-mono-word-t14207.html#p93089

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Re: Decisions, decisions (Piano Library)

Postby monsterjazzlicks » 08 Feb 2020, 21:48

Mr_-G- wrote:Hi Paul, see this message and the rest of the thread:
nord-stage-forum-f3/the-dreaded-mono-word-t14207.html#p93089

Thanks Mr_G,

That was helpful.

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Re: Decisions, decisions (Piano Library)

Postby monsterjazzlicks » 08 Feb 2020, 21:51

harmonizer wrote:In any sound production system the speakers are almost always the limiting factor in what quality of sound is produced. In the example of a home stereo system, if you spend $100 on your amplifier/receiver and $500 on the speakers, the speakers will introduce more error than the amp. Once you switch to headphones, you are using a "speaker" category for which it is much easier to build one for little money that creates excellent fidelity. In general a $100 pair of headphones will produce higher sound fidelity than a $500 pair of stereo speakers - the headphones represent a much easier technical challenge to solve.

Harmonizer,

I did not realise that the situation was so drastic! And so buying a new soundcard won't make a ton of difference, do you mean please?

I use BeyerDynamic DT-Pro phones which make anything sound wonderful!

Cheers.
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Re: Decisions, decisions (Piano Library)

Postby SteveNordP3 » 09 Feb 2020, 19:07

monsterjazzlicks wrote:
SteveNordP3 wrote:Last year I tried something different for mono. I bought a y-splitter that merges the L/R 1/4” T/S outputs into a single XLR input. To my ears, it sounds better than either using the mono button or using only one output (in stereo or mono). It’s possible it sounds better because the XLR input on the Bose mixer has a preamp. I just know the sound is closer to what I expect it to be. It’s still never going to compare to a stereo headphone experience, but it works for me.

Hi Steve,

So you come out of your Nord in stereo and this is then converted into a mono signal (via the merging of the splitter) when it hits your mixer? I would never have dreamt that one up!

Yes, I do find (as with most synths) that everything sounds so much more amazing when listening in headphones? Why is this, please? Often I have played sounds that sound fantastic (in phones) then weak and thin through an amp. It's soul destroying!

Cheers.


Yes that’s how it works in my setup. It is not as soul crushing as other methods. I know what you’re talking about. The ideal experience for me is playing the Yamaha C7 live and hearing its power reverberate through the house. Next is recording a piano with headphones on - this is very much like the sound of any of the Nords in phones. Live stereo is a real challenge - unless you’re in the sweet spot in the audience it won’t sound right. So mono it is.

Just did a rehearsal yesterday with a 4-piece (guitar, bass, drums, keys). I was using my Bose L1 (which is mono). Amber upright cut though all the thickness of the players and when providing solo support for a vocal, I went with White Grand XL - even in mono using the splitter (which in fairness sums the signal to a single XLR that goes in to a mixer channel with a preamp) - it sounds like you’re in a hall with a live mic’d piano. Very hard to beat the Nord library of amazing pianos!

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Re: Decisions, decisions (Piano Library)

Postby monsterjazzlicks » 13 Feb 2020, 19:09

SteveNordP3 wrote:Yes that’s how it works in my setup. It is not as soul crushing as other methods. I know what you’re talking about. The ideal experience for me is playing the Yamaha C7 live and hearing its power reverberate through the house. Next is recording a piano with headphones on - this is very much like the sound of any of the Nords in phones. Live stereo is a real challenge - unless you’re in the sweet spot in the audience it won’t sound right. So mono it is.

Just did a rehearsal yesterday with a 4-piece (guitar, bass, drums, keys). I was using my Bose L1 (which is mono). Amber upright cut though all the thickness of the players and when providing solo support for a vocal, I went with White Grand XL - even in mono using the splitter (which in fairness sums the signal to a single XLR that goes in to a mixer channel with a preamp) - it sounds like you’re in a hall with a live mic’d piano. Very hard to beat the Nord library of amazing pianos!

Hi Steve,

I'll have to do some more experimentation... I have not altered the EQ on any of the pianos as yet.

Even with a non-expensive pair of phones the 'fullness' of the sound can be more satisfying than that fed through an amp, I have found.

Cheers,

Paul
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Re: Decisions, decisions (Piano Library)

Postby SteveNordP3 » 01 Mar 2020, 14:42

Paul - I mentioned the rehearsals where I was using the Bose (mono) and the cable that allowed me to sum L/R outputs to an XLR input - and it sounded much better. Well, the gig was last night and the sound man wanted to run the house in stereo. I had the right cables and DI box for just such an occasion. While even the mono monitor sounded great, I went to front of house and asked one of the guys to play something while set to White Grand. I nearly cried! Small enough room (250 people?) so you didn’t seem to lose much imaging (and I didn’t see the board to know the panning extremes) but my Lord - the exact opposite of soul crushing! I got chills! No EQ from me (don’t know if the sound man EQd) and man it was as delicious as it gets!

I am sincerely thinking about getting a second Bose unit to run a stereo version for my regular stuff. This requires a discussion with the CFO :-)

I was absolutely blown away. If the venue is intimate enough, I’d say stereo brings the beauty and reality of the Nord samples to life. Amber upright for the more upbeat combo stuff was perfect and even Gospelly B3 was on fire - much better than even my summed mono. Good luck!

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Re: Decisions, decisions (Piano Library)

Postby PScooter63 » 01 Mar 2020, 19:20

Because we’re not a very loud band, I’ve played through a pair of L1s for the past 10 months, as FOH, so they’re set at extreme ends of the stage. Not only do the APs sound better than mono, I’m loving panning with EPs... and the Leslie sim benefits greatly of course.
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Re: Decisions, decisions (Piano Library)

Postby SteveNordP3 » 02 Mar 2020, 13:15

PScooter63 wrote:Because we’re not a very loud band, I’ve played through a pair of L1s for the past 10 months, as FOH, so they’re set at extreme ends of the stage. Not only do the APs sound better than mono, I’m loving panning with EPs... and the Leslie sim benefits greatly of course.


Interesting. Are you using a pair of Bose T1 mixers or are you using a single mixer of another brand and sending L/R outs to the 1/4” inputs on the bases of the L1s?

I realize this may seem like drift but I think it could help in what you store in memory playing mono v stereo - glad to take this offline if needed...
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