Nord User Forum

Hi,

Been playing with a band for about 6 months. I play mostly piano with the band. Occasionally organ or clav, but mostly piano and this is where the issue comes in. I like using my sustain pedal. I like how it sounds. We use in ear monitors, so I get to hear a direct feed of how I am going into the board. And I love how I sound on the board recordings. But after every show, the sound guy comes up to me and says I got to stop using the pedal so much because it is muddying up the sound in the room.

The things is, I am not really sure he knows what he is talking about. And I think he might have a personal beef with me. I feel like he should be able to EQ it so I can play the way I like and fit in the mix. And what is extra frustrating is that I only hear what is in my ears, and I know it sounds good even with me using the pedal a lot. But he wants me to ease up because of how it sounds in the room. But how can I play that way? I can't hear one thing in the IEMs and just assume that it is sounding good to the audience. I need to hear what I sound like.

Anyone every had a similar problem?
Should a decent sound guy be able to make me sit in the mix right even if I do use the pedal a lot?
Any advice would be appreciated.

My response is biased, because I never use IEMs - the group I currently play with is 70% acoustic (horns and drummer are unmiked, bass player has his own cabinet). We play ballroom dance gigs, about as nerdy a musical niche as you’ll find.

My school years were spent playing in wind bands, where you HAVE to listen to each other, PLUS the room, and balance yourselves accordingly. Or get kicked out.

I think your sound guy is doing his job, which includes accounting for the room. Keyboard sustain has its place, but a little can go a long way, depending upon your genre.

Try foregoing your “perfect” monitor feed, and start listening to the space, assuming that is practical for your gigs. You don’t want him to resort to gating your feed (shudder).

Hi you,

why don‘t you ask somebody, a friend of yours, to make a smartphone recording of a typical song you‘re playing with sustain pedal, and then you can listen to the live sound of your band and how you appear in the mix.

Cheers from Germany

Hi,

I haven’t had this “problem” even once since I started playing in bands, which is around 40 years now. I am a classical educated pianist and learned to play the piano including it’s pedals from the ground, so if one of the sound guys would dare to tell me that I should use my sustain pedal much less when playing piano I would send him to hell. He should do his job and make sure that the sound is right and not tell me to change the way I play my instrument.

You haven't explained what the band consists of. Neither what sort of music you are making. So hard to give any advice. If there's a bass player, you should turn down the low end on your EQ for example. It's likely that the same applies to sustain if there are more instruments in your range (guitars e.g.).

It's quite possible that the sound gets muddy in the room: If you use IEMs, take into consideration that nobody - neither your mates nor the audience - can hear the same clarity. Maybe half of it.

You have monitors but you don't hear what the public audience can hear. So don't rely on your own impressions too much: Take the sound guy seriously or try the way Tasten-Bert proposed. That's what comes to my mind.

And it is said of professional band pianists that they actually use very little sustain.

EDIT: And do you remember you already needed a new sustain pedal in spring after 3 months of use?

PScooter63 wrote:My response is biased, because I never use IEMs - the group I currently play with is 70% acoustic (horns and drummer are unmiked, bass player has his own cabinet). We play ballroom dance gigs, about as nerdy a musical niche as you’ll find.

My school years were spent playing in wind bands, where you HAVE to listen to each other, PLUS the room, and balance yourselves accordingly. Or get kicked out.

I think your sound guy is doing his job, which includes accounting for the room. Keyboard sustain has its place, but a little can go a long way, depending upon your genre.

Try foregoing your “perfect” monitor feed, and start listening to the space, assuming that is practical for your gigs. You don’t want him to resort to gating your feed (shudder).

The IEMs are practical and make a lot of things easier, but I actually don't like them for this exact reason. We actually aren't listening to each other and how we sound in the room. We all have different mixes that we set to our liking. At the next gig, I could try one IEM in and one ear free. Unfortunately, the speakers are in front of us, so I don't know what I could hear.

Tasten-Bert wrote:Hi you,

why don‘t you ask somebody, a friend of yours, to make a smartphone recording of a typical song you‘re playing with sustain pedal, and then you can listen to the live sound of your band and how you appear in the mix.

Cheers from Germany

I have done this, and the recordings always sound fine. I don't hear any muddiness. But to be fair, I don't know if I have done enough smartphone recordings to know for sure that he is wrong. He brings it up so much. So it's either a real problem, or he is just being a dick. I think he auditioned to be the keys player before I joined the band and they shot him down. Then I got the keys gig even though I have not been playing for that long. I know this is a keys forum. Not trying to bring in personal stuff, so I'll stop.

Schorsch wrote:Hi,

I haven’t had this “problem” even once since I started playing in bands, which is around 40 years now. I am a classical educated pianist and learned to play the piano including it’s pedals from the ground, so if one of the sound guys would dare to tell me that I should use my sustain pedal much less when playing piano I would send him to hell. He should do his job and make sure that the sound is right and not tell me to change the way I play my instrument.

Thank you. This is how I feel, but I don't have nearly your experience, so I don't feel I have earned the right to tell him to do his job. I am also the newest member of the band, and I really really like playing in this band and don't wanna mess it up.

FZiegler wrote:You haven't explained what the band consists of. Neither what sort of music you are making. So hard to give any advice. If there's a bass player, you should turn down the low end on your EQ for example. It's likely that the same applies to sustain if there are more instruments in your range (guitars e.g.).

It's quite possible that the sound gets muddy in the room: If you use IEMs, take into consideration that nobody - neither your mates nor the audience - can hear the same clarity. Maybe half of it.

You have monitors but you don't hear what the public audience can hear. So don't rely on your own impressions too much: Take the sound guy seriously or try the way Tasten-Bert proposed. That's what comes to my mind.

And it is said of professional band pianists that they actually use very little sustain.

EDIT: And do you remember you already needed a new sustain pedal in spring after 3 months of use?

Haha, good memory. We are a five piece: drums, bass, two guitars, and me on keys. We are a Grateful Dead cover band.

So yes, I think you are right. My keys sound great in my IEMs, but that is not what is being heard in the audience. According to sound guy, my sustain pedal is making everything muddy. I have taken the sound guy seriously, he kind of annoys me, but I try and be a good band mate, so I listen and really work on the things he says. We played one show, where we did not do our own sound because we were one of five bands that day. The sound was really bad that day, but that day I could hear what the audience was hearing. The sound was really bad and muddy, and since I could hear it, I did naturally stop using the sustain pedal as much. But in normal shows when we have our own gear, I doubt we are that muddy, or at least i hope we aren't.

I guess the real problem is, how am I supposed to play in a way that best compliments a sound I cannot hear? Yes, maybe I need to use less sustain, but if I can't hear when it gets muddy, how do I know when to ease off of it? The only solution seems to be to just not use it at all, but that would really bum me out. I feel like I use it so effectively. It sounds great when I play alone and it sounds great in the IEMs and board recordings.

Anyways, thanks. This is helpful advice.

Lots of really thoughtful responses in here thanks.