Nord User Forum

Hi,

First time poster here, long time lurker. I am researching studio monitors for my Nord Piano 4. I currently
have 2xiLoud MTMs connected to it but there seems to be some buzz on some middle notes. So, Im thinking
of getting a different set of studio monitor to see if the issue is the speakers (or it could be the piano sample
.. currently using Royal Grand 3D XL). Anyway, I ended up looking into Genelec's 8330A SAM monitors. In their
product page, there is a setup document and this part is interesting to me:

https://www.genelec.com/correct-monitors

----
Frequency Spectrum
The frequency spectrum of an electrical signal is, by definition of Collins online dictionary, "the distribution of the amplitudes and phases of each frequency component against frequency".
The audible frequency spectrum covers 10 octaves (up to 40 Hz, 80, 160, 320, 640, 1’280, 2’560, 5’120, 10’240, 20’480 Hz) which can conveniently divide the spectrum as follows.

Low frequencies:
80 Hz – 160 Hz: Low register of a grand piano.
160 Hz – 320 Hz : Middle C of a piano.
----

Interesting to me because it seems the lowest frequency is at 80hz. However, I see a lot of posts here
where people are adding subwoofers to their monitors even though those monitors are able to achieve
even lower frequencies to the stated lowest grand piano frequency. Can somebody please shed some
light on this and why one would still need a subwoofer (ex: iLoud MTM can go as low as 40Hz).

Thanks
Jong

if the buzz is in the sample you will be able to hear it with a pair of headphones. no need to spend money or time with other speakers to determine that issue.

or just try a different sample.

the iloud speakers do not go to 40hz, they are spec’d to ~3db at 55hz. They are also very near field monitors, meaning they are not going to push much volume as you move away from the speakers, particularly in the low frequency range.

a 3” speaker simply can’t push a lot of air, the lower the frequency the more air you need to be able to move.

just as an example,
an 8” speaker has more than 4x the surface area of a 3” speaker.
an 10” speaker has a little more than 11x the surface area of a 3” speaker.

so a 10” subwoofer is going to be able to push a lot more air than the 3” iloud.

Hi cgrafx,

Thanks. Yes, I was going to do that but currently I only have a bluetooth headphones with no physical input jack. I was
going to buy another studio monitor anyway because I'm planning to move the iLoud MTM to my desk computer.

-Jong

see my edited post above for more info

Hi cgrafx

Thanks for the additional information. Based on Genelec's information, the lowest grand piano frequency is
at 80hz. And they also stated this:

"The industry standard reference sound pressure level (SPL) for cinema and TV sound production work is between 82 and 85 dB at the listening position."

So, based on Genelec's 8330A specs, do I still need a subwoofer to handle upto 80hz?

https://www.genelec.com/8330a#section-t ... ifications

Thanks
Jong

The lowest tone of a piano is at 27.5 Hz. That's why you want subs... at least if you want you hear the fundamental frequency.

Overtones/harmonics will of course be audible and the ear uses those also to figure out what the fundamental was - and can be cheated so the brain may still register a low tone which is not there if the harmonics are...

So it works also without a sub. But if you want to hear the fundamental, you need to go low.

The A above middle C is 440 Hz (usually), and every octave is exactly half of the previous. So the A below is at 220 Hz, the lower again at 110 Hz, then 55 Hz and finally 27.5 Hz.

Every single step up is the previous frequency multiplied by the 12th root of 2.

So to find the frequency of Bb above A you calculate 440*1.0595 or 466.2 Hz.

Your ear can hear down to 20 Hz, and young ears up to 20 kHz.



Sent from my phone in brevity

jongtolibas wrote:Thanks for the additional information. Based on Genelec's information, the lowest grand piano frequency is at 80hz.

I wanted to say the same as baekgaard.

Another question is if you ever can hear that basic frequency - our ears don't go that deep, I think. A figure in Wikipedia tells me, I'd perceive music just down to 40~50 Hz - below is just undefined something you perceive. That's quite what I'd say, too: You only hear the harmonics of the deepest piano keys, not the fundamental frequency.

I can't tell you about a subwoofer - my speakers are 8'' - and that's enough, if you are not too demanding.

FZiegler wrote:

jongtolibas wrote:Thanks for the additional information. Based on Genelec's information, the lowest grand piano frequency is at 80hz.

Another question is if you ever can hear that basic frequency - our ears don't go that deep, I think. A figure in Wikipedia tells me, I'd perceive music just down to 40~50 Hz - below is just undefined something you perceive. That's quite what I'd say, too: You only hear the harmonics of the deepest piano keys, not the fundamental frequency.
.

I have no problems hearing a pure tone (sine wave) at 27.5 Hz, and can hear the difference between eg the lowest A and B as pure tones - so it's not correct that the ear cannot hear below 40 Hz.

Maybe we need to edit the wikipedia

In the lab, humans can hear (with the ear) sometimes down to 12-15 Hz. But 20 Hz is considered the normal lowest range.

Sent from my phone in brevity

Thanks for all this information. This helps me a lot.

-Jong

OK, I quickly wanted to know and tested it with an online tone generator: Forget it! I'll simply believe what you say, Baekgaard.

Somewhat below 110 Hz, my laptop stops sounding. My hifi setup in the living room gets quite down, but below 50 Hz, I'm not sure what I'm hearing. I can even hear a distinct sound at 6 Hz (set on the generator - not proved by a scope), but I'm quite sure that this can't be the fundamental. You'd really need a lab for that.

In any case, it would be preferable to get something to your ears if you play A1. Be it through a full range monitor or a sub woofer next to your feet.