All topics involving amplification and other accessories you are using with your Nord, and how all those things work together.

iPad and Nords -- So Far

Postby cphollis » 07 Mar 2021, 22:34

If you follow me here, you know I'm a huge fan of Nords. I've owned several over the years and have gigged with little else. But I think my next rig is going to be iPad-centric. And I'm learning a fair bit about integrating one with the other with an eye towards live performances. I'm not close to that goal yet, but I can certainly see it from here ...

My first use case was simple: keys effects and mixers. There are some very high quality reverbs, compressors, EQs, etc. out there. The setup works great, and it's one touch to record up to 16 channels. No real changes in my workflow.

Next, I wanted to fill in a few weak spots, e.g. realistic horns, strings, woodwinds -- as well as preset-surf a bunch of classic synth sounds. I've spent the last few weeks learning to play the SWAM Trumpet using my iPhone as an xyz controller. I am very pleased with the results, and look forward to their future instruments.

Finally, I wanted to compare "best of class" software instruments against core Nord sounds. I started with the Hammond B-3X module, and was frankly blown away by how awesomely great it sounded, and how wonderfully adjustable it was. I could really get used to playing live with this. Best $65 I ever spent on a musical thingie. I'll check out the Ravenscroft piano at some point.

All the key building blocks are there for a very sophisticated suite of sound engines. But there are several weak spots I need to work through.

One is that the whole setup is incredibly fragile. Cables fall out, software can occasionally get into a funny state, etc. I will definitely have to rig up hardened cabling/stand for live use. And there are far fewer software problems now that I know what and what not to do.

I have yet to set up the preset automation but will do so after I think I have a critical mass of stable software. I should be able to run in parallel with my existing workflow, having a familiar backup if the new software rig has a senior moment.

Even though I have a fairly-recent iPad, some of these apps devour CPU, and do so whether you're actually playing them or not. The Moog D and aforementioned Hammond B-3X are prime offenders, but they both sound compelling so we're going to work around what my hardware can do.

Changing presets *within* an instrument, effect, etc. is a second or two (but can be harsh on the ears if ungated), however not as instantaneous as a Nord. That could be a problem for multi-program songs.

Loading up *entirely new* software instruments can take a handful of awkward seconds. Getting an entire suite of instruments and effects to load might be as long as 10-15 seconds. Maybe OK between songs. I am testing that the new thing loaded correctly each time for now.

So far, the new iPad-centric rig is making some wonderful sounds for not much money. Youtube is your friend. As technology improves, there will be faster iPads, more storage, etc. so my upgrade path is clear. There already exists great buckets of wonderfulness in iOS-based instruments, effects and tools -- one can only expect more of the same in the future.

If anyone is interested in all the bits and pieces I'm using, let me know and I'll write it all up.
I think I have gear issues ....

The author cphollis was thanked by 4 members, including:
Schorschnic cueericLPScooter63
User avatar
cphollis
 
Posts: 1576
Joined: 01 Mar 2013, 20:56
Location: Vero Beach, Fl
Country: United States of America
Has thanked: 58 times
Been thanked: 696 times
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Stage 4
Your Nord Gear #2: Nord Piano 5

iPad and Nords -- So Far


Sponsor
 

Re: iPad and Nords -- So Far

Postby Tasten-Bert » 07 Mar 2021, 23:52

This is a very interesting subject, thank you, cphollis, for opening it.

I use an iPad already 8 years I think, just that I came from the setlist side instead of generating sounds. I‘ve only now begun discovering apps such as galileo organ, arturia iMini, crudebyte Heavy Brass and am very close to testing either colossus piano or cmp grand piano. Their file sizes reach several GBs! For one piano!

What I can say is that I prefer the organ in a real keyboard because I use the drawbars very often. I need to have them under my fingers. As far as a good piano sound is concerned I can imagine that in the long run a good app will help me a lot. Like on a real piano I play the sound which the instrument offers - it surely has to be a good one - and don‘t need much tweaking then. Regarding synth sounds I love the iMini app. With it I can make the sound wherever I am, even in bed, and use it live on stage with no difference to the original Moog.

If I think costwise: the best piano app sounds from 28 up to 55 EURO, the best moog sounds from 12 to 40 EURO, plus the advantage of no extra keybed in the rig. This is all very comfortable.

Although this sounds encouraging, I haven‘t gone the whole step of switching completely to apps. I would have to buy a second iPad for the sound apps, because I need my setlistmaker and the songsheets permanently in front of my eyes.

Curious what‘s there to come in future. Cheers from Germany
| nord electro 5D 61 and korg X50 on k&m 18880 or 18950 stand | iPad mini 5 with Set List Maker | phonic AM120 submixer |


... and I loved these of my former stuff: nord electro 3, Roland VR-760, Fatar Studio 1100, korg 01/W, Roland U-20
User avatar
Tasten-Bert
Donator
 
Posts: 837
Joined: 17 Feb 2015, 11:57
Location: Where there is friendship, love and music ...
Country: Germany
Has thanked: 152 times
Been thanked: 359 times
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Electro 5
Your Nord Gear #2: Other Brand

Re: iPad and Nords -- So Far

Postby cphollis » 08 Mar 2021, 00:51

I suspected others might be looking at the same sort of thing. The general iOS music community doesn't gig live as do many of us, so you have to poke around a bit. Let me share what I've assembled so far?

My Nords are a Stage 3 Compact and a NP4 I use as a weighted controller. All programs are currently set up (and play) on the NS3.

Midi-DIN cable from NP4 to NS3C. USB from NS3C to powered USB hub. Tascam 2x2 USB w/midi interface gets sound in/out from iPad, plus midi-DIN ports, master volume and mix between NS3C and iPad. A stereo pair of 1/4" from the interface to amp, board, etc. I also can do pure USB out to my X-Air mixer if we're doing sound with my gear. My iPhone 8+ is velcro attached to the left side of my NS3C.

I use AUM for hosting, mixing and tracking. I use KeyScape to re-map (and eventually control) the controls on the NS3C to drive whatever software knob. KeyScape also does set list and song progressions but I have yet to recreate. There's videos showing how to remap drawbars (and everything else) so I am optimistic.

Instruments I really like: Moog Model D, Hammond B-3X, SWAM Trumpet. Also lots of inexpensive retro-sounding synths, drum thingies, etc. I'm starting to collect different reverbs, which all sound great but in different ways. Add in EQs, compressors, delays, choruses, phasers and just about anything you'd care to think of. Preset automation across all of these different widgets is a work in progress.

Once I figure out how I want to mount my iPad, I can then think about how best to build a wiring harness.
I think I have gear issues ....
User avatar
cphollis
 
Posts: 1576
Joined: 01 Mar 2013, 20:56
Location: Vero Beach, Fl
Country: United States of America
Has thanked: 58 times
Been thanked: 696 times
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Stage 4
Your Nord Gear #2: Nord Piano 5

Re: iPad and Nords -- So Far

Postby mon8169 » 08 Mar 2021, 10:39

If you have a decent Windows Laptop I would recommend you running Cantabile with your prefered VST's. I'm sure it will be more flexible and customizable than anything you could achive with your iPAD.

You will never look back!!

Ramon
Cheers!
Ramon

Nord Stage Classic 76, Cantabile with Pianoteq, IK Hammond B-3X, NI B4-II and others.
User avatar
mon8169
Patch Creator
 
Posts: 371
Joined: 06 Mar 2009, 16:59
Location: Barcelona, Catalonia
Country: Catalonia
Has thanked: 25 times
Been thanked: 66 times
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Stage Classic

Re: iPad and Nords -- So Far

Postby Eriknie » 08 Mar 2021, 11:08

I only use my setup live, so perhaps not matching with your usage.

I moved from a Mainstage + RME (as mixer and audiointerface) setup controlled by a DMX-122 (I'm not a pianist).
Worked great, never had an issue with it.
But the system just felt not suited for stage: tiny cables, always afraid of updates, what if beer was thrown. I had many backups (spare mac, cables, sound-modules...)
Some bad stages made my Macbook pro dancing around...
The setup worked, but many settings are needed (DMC-122 setup, RME setup, Mainstage tricks with aliases), keeping it working and backup to other mac took alot of time.

I check the iPad route, but cables are even smaller. Synths are cheaper and most sound great

Now I simply use a NS3 + NW2. Most sounds I miss can be sampled quickly. Perhaps not always a 100% copy, but more than good enough live.
Simple backup of everything using sound manager.
I even got compliments on my sounds.

Now i can focus more on playing.

I understand the need for better sounding VST/IOS synths, and I keep looking for better setups and improve.
Giving reliability and great eco-system its hard to improve when using the Nord synths,
NP5-73, NS3C
QSheets: The fastest sheet display tool in the world that plays Audio and send Program Changes: https://QSheets.eriknie.synology.me
FixLoop: Add Loop Points of Wav Files into the Nord Sample Editor: https://github.com/erik-nie/FixLoop-NSE
User avatar
Eriknie
Patch Creator
 
Posts: 146
Joined: 14 Jan 2014, 13:01
Location: The Netherlands
Country: Netherlands
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 107 times
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Piano 5
Your Nord Gear #2: Nord Stage 3

Re: iPad and Nords -- So Far

Postby Tasten-Bert » 08 Mar 2021, 12:44

Two things to add from my side:
- Since I haven‘t heard of SWAM earlier I‘ve just had a look at the whole range. Quite interesting. What if there comes a brilliant saxophone one day ...
- The day clavia sets up a Sound Manager version for iPadOS will surely make me smile
Being on stage with devices like a notebook is not what I look for. Too large, too „nervous“. An iPad, put on the top of my nord just with a silicone pad is perfect for me.
Cheers from Germany
| nord electro 5D 61 and korg X50 on k&m 18880 or 18950 stand | iPad mini 5 with Set List Maker | phonic AM120 submixer |


... and I loved these of my former stuff: nord electro 3, Roland VR-760, Fatar Studio 1100, korg 01/W, Roland U-20
User avatar
Tasten-Bert
Donator
 
Posts: 837
Joined: 17 Feb 2015, 11:57
Location: Where there is friendship, love and music ...
Country: Germany
Has thanked: 152 times
Been thanked: 359 times
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Electro 5
Your Nord Gear #2: Other Brand

Re: iPad and Nords -- So Far

Postby anotherscott » 08 Mar 2021, 17:04

cphollis wrote:Changing presets *within* an instrument, effect, etc. is a second or two (but can be harsh on the ears if ungated), however not as instantaneous as a Nord. That could be a problem for multi-program songs.

Loading up *entirely new* software instruments can take a handful of awkward seconds. Getting an entire suite of instruments and effects to load might be as long as 10-15 seconds. Maybe OK between songs. I am testing that the new thing loaded correctly each time for now.

If you use Keystage or Camelot Pro to host/manage your other apps, I believe that will generally provide you with the ability to seamlessly switch among sounds from different apps without that delay when switching sounds. (Of course you do need to have all the apps running before you start your performance, and make sure background audio is turned on for all of them.) Switching to different sounds *within* an app is trickier... if a particular app doesn't switch sounds instantly, the solution could be to load two instances of that app (where supported), and "alternate" your patches between the two instances.

For B-3X in particular, note that there are two kind of patch changes you can create and trigger via MIDI. There are the ones that are internally assigned to the notes below the lowest C, which only change drawbar registrations and nothing else (as on a real Hammond), and those changes are instantaneous; and there are the complete programs that include a full set of parameters (not just drawbars, but also which organ/Leslie models you're using, and all the other settings for these things), and those do take a few seconds to switch.

Tasten-Bert wrote:What I can say is that I prefer the organ in a real keyboard because I use the drawbars very often. I need to have them under my fingers.
You can use the Nord's drawbars to control the B-3X organ sound in real time. Though this can be a little tricky if you're mixing and matching Nord and iPad sounds, and you want the iPad sounds to be integrated via the Nord's EXT functions, since drawbars cannot be turned on as part of the EXT function. The drawbar motions would come in on the Nord's global channel (as opposed to the specified EXT channel), so you'd have to add some remapping on the iPad side to capture the drawbars movements and redirect them to the app which is set for a different MIDI channel. Again, something like Keystage sould be able to handle this.

cphollis wrote:I use AUM for hosting, mixing and tracking. I use KeyScape to re-map (and eventually control) the controls on the NS3C
I assume you mean KeyStage, not KeyScape. With the new version of KeyStage, you may find you don't need AUM. One less app to run should help from the overhead perspective, and having just one "control environment" will probably be simpler.

cphollis wrote:Once I figure out how I want to mount my iPad, I can then think about how best to build a wiring harness.

I usually put my iPad right on my top board. If there's not enough free surface area for the iPad itself, there's still often enough space for a small iPad stand which could be velcro'd into place. But sometimes it's not possible, like on the NS3 Compact. A possible solution there is to add the Nord music stand (assuming you have the later model that has the holes for it).

mon8169 wrote:If you have a decent Windows Laptop I would recommend you running Cantabile with your prefered VST's. I'm sure it will be more flexible and customizable than anything you could achive with your iPAD.

On a PC, also check into Gig Performer as a Cantabile alternative. There's also a version of Camelot Pro.

Tasten-Bert wrote:Being on stage with devices like a notebook is not what I look for. Too large, too „nervous“. An iPad, put on the top of my nord just with a silicone pad is perfect for me.

I agree about a laptop. If I wanted to go the Windows route, I'd pick something like a Surface Pro which lays there as a tablet just like an iPad. The iPad is more "elegant" -- the Surface will generally be heavier, have more doodads hanging off its sides, and may leave you sometimes having to deal with apps that are not sufficiently amenable to touch control, which can be irritating and/or require the use of a stylus. OTOH, there is a tremendous range of very high quality apps, and it maintains better stability as you push it.
Last edited by anotherscott on 08 Mar 2021, 17:42, edited 1 time in total.

The author anotherscott was thanked by:
ericL
anotherscott
 
Posts: 3443
Joined: 07 Jan 2011, 04:50
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 1079 times

Re: iPad and Nords -- So Far

Postby ericL » 08 Mar 2021, 17:36

I have not yet been courageous enough to use an iPad (or laptop) in a live gig setting. Many many years ago, I got a top line Macbook Pro (around 2007-2008) and spent time with Mainstage trying to make something happen there. This was in the early Mainstage days and it was kind of clunky for me, compared with the hardware keyboards I was using then, which was an evolution of Yamaha S90 to Yamaha S70XS along with NE2 and NE3, prior to my dedicated years of using the Nord Stage. I just couldn't get a grip on having a laptop which required special cables to connect it to my keyboard rig, in addition to audio connections. It was a little flaky and unreliable, so this experience led me to be 100% hardware. I'm sure there are really cool things I am missing, though I am happy with stability and simplicity.

I know some have used iPhone apps for live gigs...that's intriguing, as the form factor is so small and I have a couple of spare iPhones I use for music streaming exclusively.

Thank you for sharing, as this is helpful to read and learn what others are doing.
Last edited by ericL on 08 Mar 2021, 17:37, edited 1 time in total.
Nords: NE2, NS2 88, NS3 Compact x 2
Live rig: NS3, Vent, Radial KL-8, Shure PSM-900 IEM Rig, UE18 & UE7 IEMs.
Studio: Hammond A-101 & Leslie 122, Yamaha CP-80, Yamaha S90, NS2, DSI Prophet-6, Vent II, Roland JX-8P.
ericL
Patch Creator
 
Posts: 1158
Joined: 23 Jun 2012, 00:36
Country: United States of America
Has thanked: 413 times
Been thanked: 603 times
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Stage 2
Your Nord Gear #2: Nord Stage 3

Re: iPad and Nords -- So Far

Postby nic cue » 10 Mar 2021, 17:50

Hello,

I use an ipad for several years. I bought it when I sold my NE 4 and bought a NP88, to use as a sound module initially, since NP88 hasn't sample section.
I just have a bad experience using it in live situation: It was the first time i use it for a live gig, an end of afternoon in summer. I would using it for additionnal B3 sounds (from Galileo 2 app) via a korg plugkey. The plugkey did not support sun and burned out before the start of our show...
On the other hand, it is very usefull at home, to complete my hardware. A lot of possibilities, perhaps too much! When I navigate among presets of synths (like arturia iSEM) I end up getting lost! SoI use Korg module for its simplicity, but that need in app purchase for sounds that are more "pro"... I did not know "Hammond BX-3", thanks for that! But that i really love is all the "drummer" apps from Lumbeat (like "funk drummer" or "future drummer"), very fun to use. Currently I'm studying that i could do with audio + midi looping (to include electro in live performance).
Last edited by nic cue on 10 Mar 2021, 17:51, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
nic cue
 
Posts: 34
Joined: 24 Apr 2017, 21:48
Country: France
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 4 times
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Electro 6
Your Nord Gear #2: Nord Piano

Re: iPad and Nords -- So Far

Postby Deetee » 11 Mar 2021, 16:58

I’m taking similar steps with a similar rig but I’m treading tentatively with the iPad to use as few apps as possible. B3X (especially at the sale price) was too good to resist and now having it set up, if I can maintain stability I’ll use B-3X instead of internal organ + ventilator in future. I’ve taken a look at keystage and similar apps but for now I’m trying to keep it as simple as possible:

- I use setlist maker to send program changes to my Nord stage 2 (connected via usb). I owned SLM already and used it to easily create band setlists but never used the midi functionality until now. I have one NS2 patch per song so SLM is a great time saver as I don’t have to hook my NS2 to my computer to put the patches in order before each gig. I like the presentation of the setlists (something I struggled with in keystage) and clicking a song in the list and seeing the ns2 patch change is fantastic.

-B-3X to do all my Hammond sounds. I use the NS2 global mode so that I can use the drawbars (mapped in B-3X to the right drawbar) and set the Extern section to control volume but have all zones off. If I play a song that doesn’t have Hammond SLM sends a program change to B-3X that calls up a muted Hammond patch so that B-3X although is technically triggered by Nord global in this scenario it won’t make a sound. For now I’m trying to avoid keyboard splits involving a Hammond...I’ll cross that bridge at a later date if it becomes essential. All my ns2 patches that use a Hammond have the same drawbar settings saved and SLM refreshes the B-3X patch for every song so that the drawbars always match.

- finally, I use a Yamaha cp4 or p35 midi’d to the Nord to control slot b in dual kB mode

In terms of logistics I’m thinking about getting a lockable rack drawer to transport and store the iPad prior to going on stage. I also have a rackmount headphone amp and a rack case would be a useful place to keep my audio interface which I will use to mix the Nord and iPad outputs. I just need some sort of stand/bench to get the rack up to usable height. When I’m actually on stage I’ll put the iPad on top of the rack so I can see B-3X and SLM.
Deetee
 
Posts: 19
Joined: 06 Mar 2014, 20:38
Country: Great Britain
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 4 times
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Stage 2

Next

Return to Accessories and Amplification



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests