Nord User Forum

@Cphollis:
I always liike the way you talk about "bashing" (not sure I'm using the right word in English...) some guitar "hero"....Well, they are out of my league but maybe the TT08's...About that, if I buy them, I will use my Yorkville Parasource PS-10P for vocals monitors....I just rent one for my new female singer in my second band but on the floor, compared to mine on a guitar Amp stand they seem to be very small compared to the big Peavy you find in a lot of venues that I'm not really impressed with sound wise...
Then, I was remembering one of your post were you were saying that the K8 were better for front PA than the K10 or K12 because they have a wider dispersion/angle....And that finally you were ending most of the time with the 10's or the 12's for vocal monitors? Am I right?
If yes, does any 10" speaker might be too small? Compared to 12" for vocal monitors? Also, the 12" are suppose to have a smaller angle so, the singer will loose the sweep spot even easier compared to the 10's? But less feedback if you use an Hypercardiod microphone and put them at a 120 angle?
Sorry for asking, I'm a bit lost but I want to make sure if I buy one TT first, then a second one after saving $$ again, I could use my 10's for vocals and not regret the switch...
Thanks for letting me know
Sincerely

I don't really mean to "bash" guitar players. Many of them are completely unaware of how loud they're playing, and they spoil the fun for everyone else. Since I play for fun, it's an issue I usually deal with sooner than later. They try, and then they forget themselves, and before long they're hurting everyone's ears and drowning out every other instrument. So when they turn up, I turn up. And up. And up.

Your Yorkville is a nice unit: plenty of clean power, nice musical sound.

The dispersion thing is relevant if you play smaller venues. Most speakers (especially larger ones) are highly directional -- they throw a beam of sound to the back of the room. Smaller speakers (e.g. 8") generally have better dispersion. For example, the K8s are listed with 105 degree dispersion, the K12s are 75. That can be a meaningful difference when you're trying to play at a modest volume and not be in anyone's face. It's far easier to fill a modest room with pleasant sound using the K8s than the K12s. Also, I find the smaller speakers more sonically accurate and responsive.

That being said, not usually an issue for vocal monitors, as the beam is more than wide enough. Unless your vocalists are prancing around the stage, and then it's IEM time.

The reason people usually give for bigger speakers is bass. Which is true, but often not needed. For example, the legacy K8s had great bass response, the newer K8.2s even more so. If you think you need more than that, please bring a sub!

I think your Yorkvilles would make awesome vocal monitors. Just make sure you position them outside the cardioid pattern, and you should be great. I think you'll find the TT08a more musical though.

Good luck!

cphollis wrote:I don't really mean to "bash" guitar players. Many of them are completely unaware of how loud they're playing, and they spoil the fun for everyone else. Since I play for fun, it's an issue I usually deal with sooner than later. They try, and then they forget themselves, and before long they're hurting everyone's ears and drowning out every other instrument. So when they turn up, I turn up. And up. And up.

Your Yorkville is a nice unit: plenty of clean power, nice musical sound.

The dispersion thing is relevant if you play smaller venues. Most speakers (especially larger ones) are highly directional -- they throw a beam of sound to the back of the room. Smaller speakers (e.g. 8") generally have better dispersion. For example, the K8s are listed with 105 degree dispersion, the K12s are 75. That can be a meaningful difference when you're trying to play at a modest volume and not be in anyone's face. It's far easier to fill a modest room with pleasant sound using the K8s than the K12s. Also, I find the smaller speakers more sonically accurate and responsive.

That being said, not usually an issue for vocal monitors, as the beam is more than wide enough. Unless your vocalists are prancing around the stage, and then it's IEM time.

The reason people usually give for bigger speakers is bass. Which is true, but often not needed. For example, the legacy K8s had great bass response, the newer K8.2s even more so. If you think you need more than that, please bring a sub!

I think your Yorkvilles would make awesome vocal monitors. Just make sure you position them outside the cardioid pattern, and you should be great. I think you'll find the TT08a more musical though.

Good luck!

Ok Super, thanks for the very efficient answer, as usual....
Sincerely

The new K8.2's do look good and the floor monitor ability is very useful. I went for Yamaha DXR10's as neither the DXR8's or the K8's had the floor position ability.
They're great for keyboard sounds in general and pretty good for Nord pianos.
I know that to get the very best live sound from Nord piano samples costs mega bucks and in comparison, the new QSC's look quite good value.

Given the hype and very good reviews, I'm going to buy a pair of QSC K8.2 for my Nord Piano 3/ A1r/ MOJO61.

I have only one doubt before pulling the trigger. The K10.2 version i only 30 euros more than the K8.2. Should I buy the K10.2 version in order to have a bit more bass for the Mojo61 and my left hand bass?

Maybe, just maybe in your case -- but going to the K10.2 won't buy you much.

The K.2 manual says the K8.2 is responsive to 59 Hz, the K10.2 to 56Hz. I don't know if that extra 3Hz buys you that much as compared with, say, the K12.2 which goes down to 50Hz. A well-engineered 15" could take you down to the low 40s.

See this chart to put it all in perspective: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-notenames.htm

Two things to keep in mind? The response rolls off smoothly below the stated frequency, so you still hear low notes, just not as loud unless you EQ. Which is always an option, up to a point.

The second thing to keep in mind that each larger speaker is bigger and more cumbersome to transport -- especially if you are a stereo player like me.

I personally tend to find the smaller 8" more acoustically accurate and (as mentioned before) better dispersion for smaller venues.

The other thing you might consider is a small, inexpensive sub. A little sub can go a long way.

Best of luck!

Cphollis, very good points here.

Yes I'm a stereo player and I would transport both speakers, so for just 3 mere Hz less and better accuracy, the K8.2s seem to be the best compromise.

Thanks a lot!

My guitar players play pretty damn loud to the point where it sometimes gets pretty painful. Can't gig without a good set of etymonics (great earplugs by the way if anyone's in need). It is what it is and I accept it. However, there have been a few gigs where my two K8.2s on poles behind me aren't enough set at +5db. I've been tempted to turn them all the way up, but afraid of pushing them too hard. I'm also planning on putting them next to me on the floor next gig, but honestly part of the idea behind getting them was to make it easier for my loud bandmates to hear me, since them turning down apparently is not in the cards.

Last night due to a tiny stage, I brought a Fender Hotrod Deluxe (which I use my actual Rhodes thru) to use for my NE5D. Couldn't use any acoustic piano samples for obvious reasons, but the rhodes and organ sounded great through it. A bunch of people in the audience as well as a few bandmates said they could hear me better. I'm having a hard time understanding the physics behind why this is the case, considering the supposed wattage these K8.2s put out. Is it just a frequency thing, where the Fender has the ability to push a midrange frequency to the max and the qsc's have a more accurate spread?

thanks

p.s. the qsc's on every other gig (without two extremely loud gtr players) are the most amazing sounding pieces of gear i've ever owned.

Yes, you're on the right track.

The Fender 12's in particular are famous (infamous?) for putting out an "ice pick" of highly directional sound in a very narrow frequency range.

Wherever it points, it is a LOUD and narrow beam. Like, maybe 30-45 degrees wide?

It's such a problem that there's an aftermarket of devices to help diffuse the sound. For example, I got my overly loud guitarist to go look at Deeflexx (once such device) and he now sounds much better as a result, and doesn't play as loud.

Rhodes and organ can sound good (in sort of a compressed, overdriven kind of way) through them, but will never sound clean. Hey, if it works with the music you're playing and you like the sound, why not? Just think of your amplifier as a flashlight and make sure you point it in the right direction. And bring ear protection.

The other thing to keep in mind is that there's no standard for watt ratings. That "2000w" number for the K8.2s are on the way optimistic side, as my more conservatively 750 watt RCFs are somewhat louder. There's also the matter of speaker efficiency. SPL is what ultimately matters. As a result, a small 60 watt guitar amp will often sound louder, depending where it's pointing.

As I've mentioned before, when I need to tame the super-loud guitar hero types with endless volume, I bring different toys. The last time I had to do this, it was a pair of QSC KW153 towers (~1000w each, but stupid loud) with FAS 12acs as "toppers" (~2000 honest watts each). It worked quite well vs. his Marshall stack.

I didn't even have to turn more than halfway up before he got the point. He even asked to play through them. Uhhh, no.

Here's an example? Your K8.2s are rated at 128 dB peak. Two of them would put out 131 dB (it's a logarithmic scale) and be twice as loud. A single RCF TT2-A puts out 134 dB, or as much as four of your K8.2s. For $3800 MAP.

Two of the RCF TT2-a would crank out an outrageous 137 dB, or as loud as eight K8.2s. The rig I described above puts out about 140 dB, or twice again as loud as a pair of RCF TT-a units, or an amazing sixteen times as much volume as a single K8.2. Hahahaha.

Check out this link for real-world equivalents of these dB numbers: https://www.chem.purdue.edu/chemsafety/ ... levels.htm

Back to reality?

Like you said, the K8.2s are clean and loud, but aren't for ridiculously loud situations. Don't worry about turning them all the way up, either. The DSPs will protect you, and temporarily shut you down if you go too far. But you won't damage them.

Given your situation (want to be heard, stupidly loud guitar players), what you suggest is a viable alternative. Buy guitar amps, aim them at your band members. And there's also my route: big boy amplification that can't be ignored.

Best of luck!

Finally my route was to be able to find a guitarist who plays at very low volume and doesn't want to be the "hero". He's always very low, I have to change my habits coming from the other band and to turn down myself.... He always think the singer first, the othe band members and our sound as a whole.... Yes, yes, it exists!!!
And he likes "Chic", "Stevie Wonder", "Peter Gabriel" and "Miles Davis"..."La perle rare"...And when I talk about adding a 9th or a #5 to better resolve on the root, he likes it....