Nord User Forum

[RedLeo]

However, there is whats called a 'Partition Memory Indicator' which basically tells me (in words) what the status of my memory allowance currently is.

The Sound Manager has been updated and this is the current way it shows you what's going on.

Now this amounts to nearly 120MB and so i was not able to install anything else whatsoever into the keyboard. i admit i am quite shocked of how small the Nord Stage internal memory is. Obviously the file sizes of the samples need to be what they are and so i would have thought Nord would have made a larger onboard memory capacity (esp. since they provide a staggering 9 x location slots for each keyboard instrument !!).

Yes, the Classic has a tiny memory compared to the newer versions. Deciding what to keep is a painful process. This is why they doubled the memory size for the EX and again for the Stage 2. Also, the newer samples are steadily increasing in size and even the older samples have become larger as they have been adjusted for the newer models.

1 x Clavinet (it has 4 x settings - ABCD and so i am not sure if this is classed as one our four samples ??)

The A B C and D settings all count as one sample.

The pianos you have listed to keep is a fairly typical selection and is similar to my own, although I have chosen to use a smaller piano to make room for my harpsichords.

Regarding the installation of Piano samples from my PC to the keyboard, i could not see any page offering the facility to 'drag&drop' new files ?? The only way i could see of installing a new sample was by clicking on 'Sound Download', choosing the Piano sample from my desktop, and then clicking on 'OK' to perform the operation. And also, in my Nord Stage manual the Sound Manager is called Stage Manager (i know it has since been updated) and the facilities and layout appear to be closer to your descriptions than those of the Sound Manager ?? There is even a picture explaination of the 'drag&drop' page in the Nord Manual !!

There is a newer manual for the current version 6 Sound Manager on the Nord website. I have only just installed the newer version myself, so I'm not completely familiar with it yet. I don't know whether it supports drag and drop for uploading and downloading. I just right click on the empty Piano slot I want to use and select "Download". I think it's just the same as you are doing.

The Sound Manager does support drag and drop for swapping Program and Synth locations, which gives you a handy way of organising things. Any Program or Synth swapping, renaming or deleting you do in the Sound Manager is automatically sent to your Stage at the same time.

Some of the upper toolbar icons do not appear to light and so nothing happens when i click on such items ?? i would have thought they they would all be automatically working as otherwise there is no point in them being there !!

The Sound Manager works with all the current Nord keyboards, so only things that are relevant to your particular version will be available to use. The Classic simply does not support many of the new izzy-whizzy things that you can do with the Stage 2.

Perhaps i am not doing something correctly because apart from uploading/downloading Banks/Restore files i do not seem to be able to achieve very much from the Sound Manager ??

The Classic only does:

Uploading and Downloading - single sound, one bank, or full Backup and restore.

Piano sample, Program and Synth deleting.

Program and Synth location swapping.

Program and Synth renaming.

(You cannot rename or swap Piano samples).

In any case, i would like to try deleting everything from my Piano Section except for the Lady D Grand, and then installing 1 x Bosendorf and 1 x Yamaha C7 (so have a total of 3 x Grand Pianos onboard)....But, because of the issues i seem to be experiencing with the Sound Manager i am extremely apprehensive about deleting/replacing Piano samples on my keyboard in case i end up in a situation where i lose something !!

You're really not experiencing any issues, it's just a case of understanding what the sound Manager does and doesn't do with the Stage Classic. Just go ahead and do it, there's nothing to worry about, it's a reliable and robust system.

[RedLeo]

Reagrding making a FULL BACK UP, do you mean uploading all my current onboard Banks and also saving a Restore file ?? Or do you mean a different procedure (which kind of saves the SAMPLES as well) ?? One thing which has intruiged me is that to make a complete 21 x Banks download take a very short time, though a Restore takes upto 5 x mins. Are both methods effectively not the same thing ??

Ok, there are some things they don't tell you which can be confusing. There are three memory sections: the Piano samples, the Program memory, and the Synth memory.

You can do three different things:

1. You can upload and download one Piano sample, one Program or one Synth sound.

To do this, select the Piano, Program or Synth tab, then select the slot you wish, then select "Sound Up" or "Sound Down" to upload or download the slot of your choice.


2. You can upload and download all the Piano samples, all the Programs or all the Synth sounds.

To do this, select the Piano, Program or Synth tab, then select "Bank Up" or "Bank Down" to upload or download your choice. (Some dialog boxes will appear. For the time being, don't mess with them, just accept them and let the Sound Manager do its thing).


3. You can do a full Backup (upload) or you can do a full Restore (download) from a previously created Backup file. (This Backup file is what you're calling a Restore file. I'll just call it a Backup file).

Mainly you will want to do this.

Here's where it gets interesting. When you do a Backup for the first time, it backs up *everything* as you'd expect: all Piano samples, all Programs and all Synth sounds, as well as all of your general settings (System and MIDI menus etc). It takes several minutes because the Piano samples are large. The Program and Synth memories are tiny in comparison.

However, when you do a second Backup (overwriting the first), or when you restore your Stage from a Backup file, the Sound Manager checks all the Piano samples in the Backup file and compares them to the Piano samples currently in your Stage. *If it sees they're the same, it doesn't do anything.* It only backs up or restores any *different* Piano samples. This saves a lot of time. The Program and Synth memories (and all your general settings) are always backed up and restored in full because they're so small in comparison to the Piano samples.

Edit:

If I understand correctly, you have used the Bank Up/Bank Down feature to save all your Programs. You do not need to do this. A Backup is the way to go as it saves absolutely everything as I described above. It's the only thing you need to do and it absolutely guarantees that every last thing in your Stage is saved. Restoring from a Backup will put your Stage in exactly the same state as it was when you did the Backup. Any other procedure only saves some of the data. Furthermore, only a Backup can save the state of your general settings.

Of course, there is an exception - the Master Level knob setting is not saved as this is not programmable in the first place.

It's probably a good idea to make an extra backup just in case you ever get a corrupted file. Better safe than sorry. (one day you'll thank me for this )

[mon8169]

I'd like to clarify something about the String Resonance feature. There are actually two versions of this, one is the Advanced (or Intelligent) String Resonance, which is available on the Stage 2 and Piano, but not on the older Classic or EX. From the description, this appears to be software based. However, there is also a "basic" String Resonance feature that comes with the Grand Piano samples, and this *does* work on the Classic and EX. So there is a point in choosing between the Small, Medium and Large versions as they are referring to this older String Resonance feature and you will hear it. It just depends on whether you want the String Resonance or not. My personal opinion is that the String Resonance makes a useful difference in solo piano work, but is very unlikely to be heard in a band context, it's just too subtle for the extra amount of memory it uses up.

Just to clarify, the sample versions except the small ones, include pedal down samples, that's, the string sounds without the damper. It has nothing to do with string resonance.

String resonance is sofware based, and not to be found on the classic stages (sadly for me!!).

regards
Ramon

[RedLeo]

Just to clarify, the sample versions except the small ones, include pedal down samples, that's, the string sounds without the damper. It has nothing to do with string resonance.

String resonance is sofware based, and not to be found on the classic stages (sadly for me!!).

The pedal down samples are in fact samples of string resonance, so it is appropriate to refer to them as such. Of course, they're not nearly as sophisticated as the software-based realtime version found in later models, but both approaches are trying to achieve the same end result.

[monsterjazzlicks]

Hi Red Leo,

Thank you for all your informative and lengthy replies regarding the Nord Sound Manager.

i am not surprised Nord has increased the memory allocation of their keyboards !! When i purchased my Nord Stage i had no idea that i was going to run into issues regarding storage space for the Piano Section. In hindsight, i would have purchased the Nord EX but at the time i just assumed it would be able to hold a handful of Grand Pianos (obviously i was very wrong). However, i am not going to change the keyboard now as apart from the memory aspect (and a few little geeky things which i don't like about it) it can mostly do the job of what i need it to perform. So i can live with it not holding umpteen Piano samples (and i have no choice really !!).

As you correctly understand, i have a Grand, two Rhodes, a Hammond, a Clavinet, a CP80, and a Wurlitzer permanently onboard. And i use these seven sounds very frequently and rather equally. The only occasions i would like to have (providing i can fit them on) a total of three Grand Pianos (the Lady D, Bosendorf and Yamaha C7) is either if i am playing Solo or on a Jazz Trio engagement. In which case i can temporarilly remove the surplas keyboard instruments.

The Sound Manager i have is Version 6.14 and i installed it for the first time earlier this month. So you think that any functions (in the Toolbar) which to not apply to the Nord Stage keyboard will still appear but they are in shaded grey (so they do not respond when clicking on their respective icons).

So when i perform a Back-Up of my work the Sound Manager saves EVERYTHING into a single file. And downloading this same file (as in Restore) it will reset EVERYTHING on my Nord exactly as it was before i made the Save (or any changes since). Yes, the very first time i made a Back-Up it took over 10 xmins to Save but now it only takes around 3/4 mins each time. You sate that the first time it Saves all the Piano Section data but it only does this once (until something changes) because the Piano samples are so big in comparison to the other data files. Is that correct ??

Now, if i swap my Lady D Grand for the (say) Bosendorf then will the Back-Up procedure take around 10 x mins again because the Sound Manager will have noticed something is new and will need to Save the Piano Section alterations ??

And also, if i currently have the Lady D Grand onboard and i load a Back-Up file which has Bosendorf Piano Patches, does the Back-Up file ACTUALLY CONTAIN THE BOSENDORF SAMPLE itself (and so it automatically re-places the Bosendorf sample and automatically removes the Lady D sample), or do i have to swap these two Piano samples myself manually in addition to downloading the Back-Up file ??

i still have not tried to Swap/Erase and Piano Section samples because i am up to my eyeballs in programing the Program Change and Control Change settings from earlier this month. It is a long job and even though i am now very quick, it still takes many hours per day to get this data correctly set and saved. i have almost completed 10 x 21 Banks of Patches !!!

The reason i have also saved the Back-Ups as BANK (Upload) files is because (using the Subfolders) i have the option of completely mix and matching various Banks from the 10 different 21 x Bank folders i have. So i could load my keyboard up with a Bank of Split Partches, a Bank of Layer Patches, a Bank of Synth Sounds, and Bank of Patches routed to Outputs 3&4, and so on....... I experimented with this and i can put any Bank to any Location on the keyboard. And mix and matching like this gave me a keyboard set up which could get thru almost any musical situation !!

Well there you go for now and i will spend some dedicated time sorting thru your kind advice regarding the Piano Section samples later on this week.

Best,

Paul

[RedLeo]

So you think that any functions (in the Toolbar) which to not apply to the Nord Stage keyboard will still appear but they are in shaded grey (so they do not respond when clicking on their respective icons).

That's correct.

So when i perform a Back-Up of my work the Sound Manager saves EVERYTHING into a single file. And downloading this same file (as in Restore) it will reset EVERYTHING on my Nord exactly as it was before i made the Save (or any changes since). Yes, the very first time i made a Back-Up it took over 10 xmins to Save but now it only takes around 3/4 mins each time. You sate that the first time it Saves all the Piano Section data but it only does this once (until something changes) because the Piano samples are so big in comparison to the other data files. Is that correct ??

Now, if i swap my Lady D Grand for the (say) Bosendorf then will the Back-Up procedure take around 10 x mins again because the Sound Manager will have noticed something is new and will need to Save the Piano Section alterations ??

Yes to all the above. You've got it.

And also, if i currently have the Lady D Grand onboard and i load a Back-Up file which has Bosendorf Piano Patches, does the Back-Up file ACTUALLY CONTAIN THE BOSENDORF SAMPLE itself (and so it automatically re-places the Bosendorf sample and automatically removes the Lady D sample), or do i have to swap these two Piano samples myself manually in addition to downloading the Back-Up file ??

Yes, the Backup file would contain the actual Bosendorf sample. The Sound Manager would indeed erase the Lady D sample and replace it with the Bosendorf sample automatically. (This assumes that the samples are using the same slot, in this case the "Grand 1" location). You just need to sit back and have a beer while patting yourself on the back for choosing a Nord...

The reason i have also saved the Back-Ups as BANK (Upload) files is because (using the Subfolders) i have the option of completely mix and matching various Banks from the 10 different 21 x Bank folders i have.

This is a good example of where you would use Banks rather than a full Backup

[mon8169]

The pedal down samples are in fact samples of string resonance, so it is appropriate to refer to them as such. Of course, they're not nearly as sophisticated as the software-based realtime version found in later models, but both approaches are trying to achieve the same end result.

Not really. The string resonance reffers to the sound emited by the keyed down strings when they receive the impact from other notes waves. Try the following: press a chord until it completely fades, but mantain the keys pressed. Then press the sustain pedal down (you hear absolutely no sound, the keys are still pressed). Then press hard another key and you'll hear the initial chord very softly beneath the pressed key.

I hope it makes sense, it's hard to explain in a foreign language!!

regards
Ramon

[monsterjazzlicks]

There is a newer manual for the current version 6 Sound Manager on the Nord website. I have only just installed the newer version myself, so I'm not completely familiar with it yet. I don't know whether it supports drag and drop for uploading and downloading. I just right click on the empty Piano slot I want to use and select "Download". I think it's just the same as you are doing.
i think drag&drop is only for swapping and moving locations (but only for Synth and Programs as you state). 'Downloading' Piano samples is the only method for transefing such files. But thats fine and i think we are both obviously doing this procedure correctly.


Any Program or Synth swapping, renaming or deleting you do in the Sound Manager is automatically sent to your Stage at the same time.
Yes, its almost instantaneous. Being able to type in the text via my laptop is also a very handy and fast asset. However, i only wish the Nord Stage had more charactors to choose from (there is not even a full stop !!). i think the DX7 had far more charactor options than the Nord Stage and also it does not even allow for much text (and so everything has to be abbreviated which is difficult when you have layered THREE sounds !!).



The Classic simply does not support many of the new izzy-whizzy things that you can do with the Stage 2.
Now why does that not surprise me !!



Of course, there is an exception - the Master Level knob setting is not saved as this is not programmable in the first place.
Sure.


It's probably a good idea to make an extra backup just in case you ever get a corrupted file. Better safe than sorry. (one day you'll thank me for this )
Do you mean backing up all my savings to a USB Stick or external hard drive (everytime i created new folders) just i case they get erased or a virus ?? At the moment i only have one copy (of each different file) on my desktop !!



Yes, the Backup file would contain the actual Bosendorf sample. The Sound Manager would indeed erase the Lady D sample and replace it with the Bosendorf sample automatically. (This assumes that the samples are using the same slot, in this case the "Grand 1" location).
If i am i downloading one Grand Piano sample, do i save it to 'Grand 1' location. Then if two pianos, then i save them to 'Grand 1' and 'Grand 2' locations ??


When you do a Backup for the first time, it backs up *everything* as you'd expect: all Piano samples, all Programs and all Synth sounds, as well as all of your general settings (System and MIDI menus etc).
You do not mention the Organ Section here ?? Does it not have it's own Catagory or does it fall under the Synth or Piano Sections ??


It has proven to be a really big job in trying to get my Nord Stage personalised and how i want it set etc. i now have thirteen Back-Up files and i seem to be constantly editing things here and there (which ends up taking hours !!). i keep going over stuff and noticing mistakes every time a run a check thru. i have spent far more time programing the thing than i have actually PLAYING it !! i just hope it all works out how i have imagined in the end because i have put so much time and effort so far over the past couple of months. Something i would like to get started on learning is the Synth Section as i have hardly used it (other than for Bass and Pad sounds). But that aspect is going to have to wait until i get everything else sorted out first. The text thing i need to try and master is the Piano Section (regarding the installing of new samples). i have enough information from yourself and others to get me up and running and i have printed off sheets of our dialogue. This will be a really big step for me because it will take my programing skills into a totally new direction.

[monsterjazzlicks]

yes, place the first Grand Piano in slot 1, and then the second in Slot 2. It is certainly possible to put the second in Slot 3, which would cause you more button presses when going from one to the other, but a reason for doing so would be if you found a program that used slot 3 that you wanted to keep. But this would be an exceptionable case.

I think you overdid it with the back ups. Since all the files are readily available at Clavia, or can be d/l to your own hard disc, you really dont need to copy much. The exception would be Synth programs which have a lot of settings to remember, or if you created your own Programs using some combination of the six voices (slot A and Slot B, each having a synth and or a piano and or an organ). These need to be backed up. Organ drawbar settings too. But not pianos or eps....

hope you play some with the Stage, it is a lot of fun, The connection with the instrument is more direct and organic than with a lot of keyboards, making it a blast to play!

[RedLeo]

You do not mention the Organ Section here ?? Does it not have it's own Catagory or does it fall under the Synth or Piano Sections ??

The Organ does not have its own section, its settings as saved as part of the Program.

A Program saves:

1. The Piano settings, but not the Piano samples.

2. All the Organ settings.

3. All the Synth settings.

4. All the Effects settings.

5. All the External section settings.

A Program does not save the various Menu settings.

The Synth is a special case - surprisingly, its settings (ie the Synth sound itself) are also saved in the Program. (This is *not* like a Korg Combi, which stores a Timbre location, but not the Timbre sound itself).

Do you mean backing up all my savings to a USB Stick or external hard drive (everytime i created new folders) just i case they get erased or a virus ?? At the moment i only have one copy (of each different file) on my desktop !!

You should save an extra copy of your full Backup on a separate medium. If you are just saving Program Banks in order to swap things around, you don't really need to make copies of these as they will all be saved in your main Backup anyway. Just update your full Backups from time to time (both copies), or when you are done editing for the day.