I am trying to make the output level of a sound react to keyboard velocity stronger than what I get using the "AMP VEL" button. I want it to be really quiet when I play softly and loud when I play hard. This is something that is very easy to achieve with a velocity morph in my Nord Rack 2x, but strangely it doesn't seem to be possible with the Nord Lead 4.
If I do the following:
- Turn output level all the way down
- Press and hold the Morph/Velocity button
- Turn output level all the way up
- Release the Morph/Velocity button
Then I don't even get an output signal at all, because even when I hit the keys hard velocity seems too low to generate an audible signal.
If I do the same as above but starting at output level 5, then I do get some velocity sensitivity but it's just as limited as with the "AMP VEL" button.
Am I missing something? Did Clavia deliberately limit velocity sensitivity compared to the 2x? Definitely a step back in my opinion.
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- bermudaben
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- Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Lead 1/2/2x
- Your Nord Gear #2: Nord Lead 4
Re: Nord Lead 4R morph/velocity sensitivity way too limited
Yes, "amp vel" as well as "velocity morph to output level" does not behave like all other morphs and parameters behave.
Also other "black magic" issues interwoven with that topic and behaviour, I wrote about it in this thread:
nord-lead-rack-forum-f12/nl4-bug-strange-behaviour-vel-morph-output-amp-vel-t12624.html
Also other "black magic" issues interwoven with that topic and behaviour, I wrote about it in this thread:
nord-lead-rack-forum-f12/nl4-bug-strange-behaviour-vel-morph-output-amp-vel-t12624.html
Re: Nord Lead 4R morph/velocity sensitivity way too limited
I did some more testing regarding amp velocity sensitivity and got some very interesting results. In fact, as much as I like the Nord Lead 4 sound-wise, I think that there is something seriously wrong with how it converts midi velocity values into output level. Have a look at the following images. What I did was create a basic patch with "AMP VEL" activated and then send a succession of midi notes with velocity values ascending from 1 to 127 (image 1) to the Nord Lead 4. As you can see in image 2, up to a velocity value of around 75, the output level of the synth basically stays the same. Then the level starts to increase in an exponential way. By far the most change is happening between 120 and 127. This behavior makes it almost impossible to play the synth in a dynamic way. Image 3 shows how my Nord Rack 2x reacts to the same midi input. The output level increases steadily, making it easy to play dynamically. This is how it should be.
Image 1: Midi input
Image 2: Nord Lead 4 output
Image 3: Nord Lead 2x output
And here's a sound file of the NL4s audio output:
https://soundcloud.com/bermudaben/nl4r-amp-velocity-output/s-bPwM7
I'd be interested to hear other people's opinion about this. Also, it would be awesome if someone could replicate these findings. I haven't seen this behavior in any synth I've owned. I almost suspect my unit is broken, but then again ... it's digital ... if it was broken it wouldn't work at all I guess. My OS is 1.3 by the way.
Image 1: Midi input
Image 2: Nord Lead 4 output
Image 3: Nord Lead 2x output
And here's a sound file of the NL4s audio output:
https://soundcloud.com/bermudaben/nl4r-amp-velocity-output/s-bPwM7
I'd be interested to hear other people's opinion about this. Also, it would be awesome if someone could replicate these findings. I haven't seen this behavior in any synth I've owned. I almost suspect my unit is broken, but then again ... it's digital ... if it was broken it wouldn't work at all I guess. My OS is 1.3 by the way.
- bermudaben
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- Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Lead 1/2/2x
- Your Nord Gear #2: Nord Lead 4
Re: Nord Lead 4R morph/velocity sensitivity way too limited
I liked your evidence-based approach, so I performed the same steps and basically see similar results. The sound level seems to increase in a non-linear (and not very musical) way.
First thing I did on my NL4 is select a single patch and hit "sound init" to start with a basic sound. I didn't change any levels or other settings other than the settings described below.
I tested "AMP VEL" with a MIDI clip with 16 notes with the following velicities: 8, 16, 24, 32, 40, 48, 56, 64, 72, 80, 88, 96, 104, 112, 120 and 127. I just turned on the "AMP VEL" function.
Next I recorded the notes and applied a 4dB boost to better show the resulting levels. The output doesn't start at the lowest level and stays relatively low for all but the highest velocity range:
Here is the same sample with a 16dB boost, since that makes the (lack of) change in amplitude more visible.
I did the same for Velocity Morph. I turned the Output Level knob all the way to 0.0, and then set the morph all the way up to 10.0. I then turned the Output Level down to 0.0 again for the morph to work. Any morph setting was cleared with Shift+Velocity or Shift+Wheel in between recordings. The starting output is not zero, but lower compared to "AMP VEL" and the maximum amplitude is much higher, but still far from linear:
Next I tested a Wheel morph of the Output Level with a MIDI clip with 16 notes (velocity set to 127) and a linear MIDI envelope ranging from 0 to 127 for the Expression Parameter.
In the resulting recording, at least the starting output level seems to be at zero and seems to respond in a more linear fashion, but the final output level is comparable with "AMP VEL", which IMHO is too quiet.
Edit:
So I think I replicated this issue/effect sufficiently, and my conclusion is that the output level mapping is nowhere near the usable behavior of that of your NL2x.
My Nord Lead 4 firmware is also at version 1.30.
First thing I did on my NL4 is select a single patch and hit "sound init" to start with a basic sound. I didn't change any levels or other settings other than the settings described below.
I tested "AMP VEL" with a MIDI clip with 16 notes with the following velicities: 8, 16, 24, 32, 40, 48, 56, 64, 72, 80, 88, 96, 104, 112, 120 and 127. I just turned on the "AMP VEL" function.
Next I recorded the notes and applied a 4dB boost to better show the resulting levels. The output doesn't start at the lowest level and stays relatively low for all but the highest velocity range:
Here is the same sample with a 16dB boost, since that makes the (lack of) change in amplitude more visible.
I did the same for Velocity Morph. I turned the Output Level knob all the way to 0.0, and then set the morph all the way up to 10.0. I then turned the Output Level down to 0.0 again for the morph to work. Any morph setting was cleared with Shift+Velocity or Shift+Wheel in between recordings. The starting output is not zero, but lower compared to "AMP VEL" and the maximum amplitude is much higher, but still far from linear:
Next I tested a Wheel morph of the Output Level with a MIDI clip with 16 notes (velocity set to 127) and a linear MIDI envelope ranging from 0 to 127 for the Expression Parameter.
In the resulting recording, at least the starting output level seems to be at zero and seems to respond in a more linear fashion, but the final output level is comparable with "AMP VEL", which IMHO is too quiet.
Edit:
So I think I replicated this issue/effect sufficiently, and my conclusion is that the output level mapping is nowhere near the usable behavior of that of your NL2x.
My Nord Lead 4 firmware is also at version 1.30.
Last edited by Schmart on 03 Nov 2017, 12:10, edited 1 time in total.
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- bermudaben
Re: Nord Lead 4R morph/velocity sensitivity way too limited
Thanks for testing! I also had the idea of using the AMP VEL button plus an output level velocity morph at the same time. This does indeed increase the dynamic range between the quietest and loudest notes, but the resulting keyboard playing behavior is not usable. The increase in level will be even more exponential as you increase velocity.
I really wonder why nobody seems to have noticed or criticized the behavior of keyboard velocity in the NL4. At least I haven't found any other posts about it in any forums. Is it because people are using the NL4 more for electronic music, where keyboard feel doesn't matter much?
Most of all, I am seriously asking myself what Clavia were thinking when they designed velocity sensitivity in this way. Why didn't they leave it the way the NL2x works? I am sure they could reprogram it in a future OS update.
I am going to send back the NL4 I got for testing. This kind of velocity response is a total no-go for me.
I really wonder why nobody seems to have noticed or criticized the behavior of keyboard velocity in the NL4. At least I haven't found any other posts about it in any forums. Is it because people are using the NL4 more for electronic music, where keyboard feel doesn't matter much?
Most of all, I am seriously asking myself what Clavia were thinking when they designed velocity sensitivity in this way. Why didn't they leave it the way the NL2x works? I am sure they could reprogram it in a future OS update.
I am going to send back the NL4 I got for testing. This kind of velocity response is a total no-go for me.
- bermudaben
- Posts: 4
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- Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Lead 1/2/2x
- Your Nord Gear #2: Nord Lead 4
Re: Nord Lead 4R morph/velocity sensitivity way too limited
Well, maybe nobody noticed because the Lead keybed is so crappy that nobody ever tried to use velocity on it...
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Spider - Posts: 1124
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