Nord User Forum

>> 8" monitors are not going to be a stage solution unless you are performing solo or with a very acoustic combo* including a drummer who was born before 1960.

I'm not sure of that - those puppies are rated at 128 dB (data sheet). For comparison, JBL EON15 (which are almost twice the weight) are 129 dB.
They don't go as low in frequency (65 Hz where the JBLs are 48 Hz) but for a monitor speaker that's OK if not even an advantage.

Gambold wrote:> if not to hear then in their full glory through amplification that can be moved without straining your back<

1) I don't know that moving them is an issue. 8" monitors are not going to be a stage solution unless you are performing solo or with a very acoustic combo* including a drummer who was born before 1960. Finding work for this kind of outfit is no easy task. I'm guessing most of us who play are in electric groups where scoring a community tent show is a big deal.

2) If you are playing with electric guitars, bass, and a drummer who clubs his heads, in yer typical sports bar or the aforementioned outdoor stage in the town square, the full glory you paid so dearly for is going to be totally lost on your audience, the rest of the band, and you. For most of us in a live environment, the problem is not uber-fidelity, it's getting heard clearly over the din - and making sure the "sound guy" doesn't bury us in the mix.

3) So I would argue that these are very expensive studio monitors, purchased in lieu of an actual acoustic piano. Great for sitting at home and playing Chopin with your Imperial XL sample. But for banging out Little Queenie with the Blue Swede, at home or on the road, it's a super-pricey way to rinky-tink on three chords.

*I JUST CHECKED YOUR SITE (http://www.alquinn.com/live/), YOU GUYS SOUNDED GREAT!

I think we'll agree to disagree.

Proper 8" units can blow your socks off, deliver good response down to 80Hz, and be far louder than anything you'd ever need. A pair of QSCs K8s or RCF TT08as are more than enough for FOH with an electric band in good-sized bar. Add a sub, even larger venues. As keyboard amplification, they can be louder than any other instrument. I also have 10s and 12s at my disposal, but don't often need them.

Try'em before you diss them.

Sonic accuracy also helps you stand out against the din without the need for additional volume. I can sit in a mix nicely without constantly reaching for additional volume. Even when I'm playing with enthusiastic guitarists, drummers, horns, etc. And I'm usually not getting any help from FOH guy.

I own a pair of Focal studio monitors. Not as nice as the Genelecs, but I get how good monitors can help you enjoy and work with music. I don't in any way consider them an alternative to my nice acoustic piano.

We all come from different viewpoints. Mine is "I play for fun". Enjoying the performance experience comes first, cost-effectiveness takes a back seat.

And, yeah, Al Quinn's stuff is really, really good!

Quai34 wrote:By the way, the blog I found with a lot of thoughts about amplification and the Bosendorfer etc, it's you right?

That's me!

>Try'em before you diss them.<

I need $4000 first

I wasn't dissing the quality. I'm sure they are awesome. I was "dissing" the cost/reward ratio, given most people's playing environments. And bank accounts.

> As keyboard amplification, they can be louder than any other instrument. <

A) Nord has some of the lowest output in the industry. At least my Electro 4 does. I always need to boost it up with a mixer.
B) If your guitarist(s) is wailing through a Marshall or Twin, coupled with his own boosters and overdrive, no you will not be louder.
c) Couple this with a drummer playing a full kit that the sound guy decided needed to be miked, and your QSC K-8s are going to be great during those few moments it's just you and the vocalist playing the opening to Dream a Little Dream of Me. Other than that, you will be crying for a Peavey KB300 by the third song, or else begging the bassist to patch into his rig for some low end.

Hi again,
I will continue to give you my inputs because I have always been into having a good sound first for you because it helps you to play better...I had so many experiences in the past when I was not even hearing what I was playing that, as soon as I was able to get good monitors (Genelec 8040A at home...and Yorkville for stage...) I did it. Ok, even if I have a lot of keys (All can see that in my signature...), those days, with all the extra expenses that I've been having after my paragliding accident last year (And 8 hours back surgery..), I won't be able to spend 4000$ on a pair of speakers...I mean, it's just priorities....Nobody could be "angry" at Cphollis because he's wealthy enough to afford nice stuff for fun...If you go to his blog, this is the first thing you will notice...He was thinking like me to have a carrier in music but his Dad told him that he would better have a more lucrative job and play for fun than always being sttruggled by not making enough money for living in working in the music business. He says that he was lucky (Or smart/skilled enough...) to have good jobs that pay well and so, he uses it for his passions. I have the exact same history and few years ago, as a professor, I was able to rebuy all that stuffs. I was not focused on stage monitor because I was not in a band at that time but when I heard the Genelec, I said, I need that...and bought them with financing at Long and Mac Quade...

When I restarted to play in a band, with the common usual "way too loud" guitarist, I bought one Yorkville first (1100$ without taxes..) and one year later, another one..( With free interests financing...). Why? because I do it for fun and we have enough opportunity in life and job to get bad things and to get harmed that, when the times come to have fun, we want all we need (Or we think we need, but whatever...) to get the most "funny time" we could get...It's the same with climbing or windsurfing for me...I've spent so many times on the beach because i didn't have the right sails that now, I have 8 different sizes, to be able to have fun whether it's a 10 Knots wind or a 50 Knots wind...Same for music...I don't have anymore issue of finding the right patch/sound/program any time I start to work on a new songs....In fact, it's the opposite: Which Synth/expanders am I going to use for that particular sound is the only question I have to ask myself...I know it could be considered as luxury, but again, what is the point to work like crazy and to make money if it's not to enjoy it with what is your passion...
So, I understand very well the spirit behind Cphollis mind...and I don't agree with Gambold: You could really hear yourself, even with a very loud guitarist and drummer if tou have the two 8" or 10" speakers on each side of your keys, turned towards you...The sound on stage is the first step because it will help you to play better, more relaxed etc...
PA sound is the next step and I can understand Cphollis when he says that sometime he's giving the rest of the band his Fulcrum as wedge monitor but when they complained when he's not bringing them again, he says "Do your homeowork, find a good pair and spend, I'm not going to spend all the time for the band..."
My guitarist doesn't deserve very good monitor because he's playing for him and not for the music...So, he's always too loud...
I can understand why people think it's crazy to spend that amount of money but how many people do that with their cars...they have a super nice one (Ok, Cphollis had a Porsche Carrera but said that he's done with that, so, he could spend on music instead...). Have a look at his blog and you might better understand.
On the positive side, he could be still very egocentric and not sharing experiences and advices with others but it's not what he's doing. Thanks a lot to him to take the time to write a lot about his experience based on different situations than just keeping all for him.
Link to Cphollis blog:
http://chucksblog.typepad.com/late_bloo ... on-v3.html

As a conclusion:
My opinion is, yes, with a good 8" or 10" speakers, the kind of that has been released by JBL 20 years ago with the first EON, we really can, nowadays, as keys players, get a very good monitoring for ourselves, even with very loud bandmate. Today - and that was not the case in the past - there is not a single song when I cannot hear very well myself...But I categorically refuse to spare my own stereo monitor, whatever the room we have...It's stereo, with my full kit or I don't play. No more bad personal experience at any gig...I don't accept anymore to have the keys being the "5th wheels of the horse dranw coach" (french expression...), I spent for that, Cphollis as well and that's prefectly fine...
For the PA, it all comes to what you want to spend for the band...If they are receptive, and according to Cphollis, his band seems to be, it's worth to spend and to get the best he can anytime he has a gig...He could afford it, good for him, no shame...

Gambold and cphollis, thanks for the positive feedback.

Gambold, I've played rock gigs with loud drummers born after 1960 and loud guitarists, and could still hear myself clear as a bell. The TT08As are not only very loud but they also retain their clarity when pushed. And, I never use the TT08As at home. They're strictly for gigs. At home I play a Yamaha C3 acoustic grand and a Hammond A100 / Leslie 145.

BTW, if I didn't thank you for the RCF tip, Al, here it is again. They're very very good.

I'm glad you like them Chuck. You're welcome!