Nord User Forum

Hello All: I am a Newbie on this site and contemplating being a Nord owner/user. I've admired the Electros for a few years and have noticed they are commonly used by professionals when I watch concerts on TV of rock-oriented bands. I've never played one (there are no retailers near me). I've been Kurzweil-ite for many years, since their PC3 model was introduced. I've owned their 61 and 76 note versions and currently have their Artis 7 board, which is a "baby brother" to the PC3 IMO. I appreciate its light weight (under 30 lbs --"light" as far as Kurz' boards go), and I was able to upload most of the quality sounds and mixes/splits, etc. from my PC3 days. However I normally perform with two keyboards, with the "right" one (I place them at right angles to each other, instead of stacking) usually dedicated to the ever-elusive Hammond Organ sound. Having been born and raised on the real deal back in the 1970s, it has been difficult for me to accept anything digital that attempts to emulate the organic sounds of the Hammond--and especially the Leslie speaker effect. The Kurz' did a decent job with its 9 drawbars in getting the Hammond-side of the equation covered (although I still maintain that the output was "thin" compared to the real deal, as though all the pitches represented in the drawbars were on a diet), and am asking any Nord 5d users whether they've had the opportunity to compare the B3 sounds on their instrument with the Kurzweil PC3. I know this is a subjective question and honestly I've created and saved a pretty accurate B3 setting off my PC3's and have it on my Artis 7. I'm just looking for near-perfection and wondering if Nord brings it.
As an anecdote: I just ordered a Neo Mini Vent, so any complaints rooted in the Nord's "dirty" Leslie qualities won't have to be an issue. My goal will be to hook the Nord into the Vent, and use it as my Hammond organ board exclusively.

I have a current opportunity to purchase a NE 5d for the same price as a Kurzweil PC3a7, and am attempted to jump ship over to Nord, just out of curiosity and reviews online, although I haven't really located any reviews and specific comparisons between the two boards that are conclusive. The nuances of Kurzweil's V.A.S.T. programming no longer intimidates me, as I've worked through that format for 6+ years now, and am fairly comfortable in extracting as much power and flexibility out of the Kurzweil boards that I need.

Thanks in advance for your comments and suggestions.

I own a PC361, Electro 3, Electro 4 and Stage 2EX. I have to say, subjectively, that I prefer the sound and workflow of Nord's emulation much more than the Kurz.

First of all, I feel the layout of the Nord is much more conducive to "playing" the instrument; the controls just seem more natural to me, particularly with the drawbars on my Electro 4D. That's not to say I haven't been able to use the PC3 effectively to control the organ behavior, but I do think the Electro is simpler.

I play jazz and not rock. I look for more of a Jimmy Smith type of organ than Jon Lord (to use two extremes). I have always had a problem with the sound of Kurzweil's CV emulation - it sounds more like a beating rhythm to me than a smooth chorus effect, made even worse with the rotary on slow. I also don't like that the CV is tied to the cabinet emulation effect, it just seems very odd to me. Finally, there is no intuitive way to just simulate a one-speed Leslie, where you just have fast and brake. It's kind of a kludgey implementation, like Kurzweil didn't think this was a common setup. On the Nord it's all right there.

Like many Kurz owners, I've struggled with what I consider to be a "good" sounding Leslie emulation. I need something transparent and authentic, as the keys don't get buried under mountains of guitars. There are a few decent ones out there, such as the Bill W emulation and Kurz's own double leslie. The double gobbles up too many resources, and while the Bill W effect is pretty good, it doesn't equal what I can get out of the Nord's - even the Electro 3.

Finally, Kurzweil's foldback is odd. Even though Hammonds have 91 tone wheels, you need to set the KB3 emulation to 86 tone wheels to get the proper fold back behavior. There is a bug in the OS that, when you do that, you cannot edit any other KB3 parameter and hear it. You need to reset the tone wheel count to 91, make your other edits, and then return it to 86. Very annoying. Nord does the foldback right.

The B3 emulation on the Electro 3 sounds really good, better than the PC3. The Stage 2EX is a generation new and sounds better than that. And the Electro 4D is the bees knees; I think the Leslie emulation sounds fine, and don't carry a extra box, even though I own a GSI BURN. They are all easy peasy to use. I don't have many organ preset programs, as I just take a standard configuration and play with it from there, manipulating settings as I need. The fact that the 4D is super light and compact make it a no brainer to me. With regard to your comment about the thin sound, the Nord has a great EQ right on the panel so you can change it on the fly depending on the environment.

Just my experience. The PC3 rarely leaves the house, and I've actually put it up for sale. I usually play a one instrument setup, but my two keyboard rig is the Stage on the bottom and the 4D up top.

One more thought. I'm not sure I could do a two keyboard setup in an L. As I said above, I like to play with the drawbars and other settings while I play, so I need my left hand close the controls. I also use a pedal for rotor speed and, of course, an expression pedal. Not sure I could handle swinging back and forth between the instruments. It's great that it works for you.

Here's picture of my setup using the E3 on the bottom. I was testing a keyboard stand modification to see how they would stack.



Couple of audio samples. This clip is about the gruffest I get with the sound. You can hear the organ comps throughout, but the solo starts around 4:00. Not great quality. It was an outdoor gig on a pretty breezy evening recorded through a Zoom H2.


Here's a basement recording of Sugar, this one uses the rotor on brake with CV on. The organ solo starts around 2:10:


I know the E5 is slightly different, but this should give you an idea compared to your PC3A.

Have you played the 5D, and if so would your (positive) comments about the 4 extend to that? I had read reviews that criticized the 5's Leslie emulation, with most reviewers indicating the 4 was "better", at least in that regard. Also there was some sort of deficiency in the two regarding the Clavs--which I could care less about.

I appreciate your comments regarding the PC3 and the various negative nuances of the KB3, the Rotary (the "Double Leslie" is horrible out of the box--sounds like two phase shifters shooting sound back and forth across a vacant, tiled room), HOWEVER as I had indicated in my post, I have become adept at getting far inside the VAST architecture of the Kurz'--to the extent that I don't think there's a sound or effect that I can't customize and create to my satisfaction. I've got a Leslie that's so customized and fine-tuned that it would compete with a GSI or Neo in a live situation. That said, I am still unfulfilled as to the pure sound of the Hammond organ, without any effects applied, on the Kurz, and am hoping the Nord would fill that vacancy. I am attracted to the Nord for its form factor (weight and length, etc), plus its keybed (similar to the PC3). I had a PC3a6 for about two days before returning it. I didn't care for the synth key bed and having the 61 (vs. 73 or 76 keys). My only other consideration is the PC3a7, but its weight (nearly twice the Nord 73) and mass (4' long), plus the promise of a better Hammond are keeping me from going down that road again. I am pretty certain the Nord will appear to me to be a less "powerful" board than the PC3's, but "power"--at least IMO--is secondary to "purity", particularly in respect to the Hammond emulation, with or without the onboard Leslie effect.

I only briefly tried an E5 in a store. I don't recall distinctly hearing a significant difference, but have to admit I wasn't listening for it, as I tried it before I heard about those concerns.

The clav filters that were part of the E2, E3 and E4 are gone from the E5. I don't use clavinet for anything other than curiosity, so I can't talk to any of that with authority.

I gave up on the PC3 for organ mostly because I could not get it usable for an old school jazz sound - rotary on brake and C2 or C3 setting. I too spent a lot of time digging through the KB3 parameters (and made attempts to integrate the Burn with it), but came to the conclusion that it was simply too much work, considering I could just turn the Electro on and play it.

My Electro 4D is the 61-key, which is great for the way I use it. I used to own the Electro 3-73 SW, but traded up to the 3HP since I play mostly piano. My Stage 2EX is the 76HP model, which is not great for organ, but I can play decent enough, and need it really more for the piano aspects. If I need a more authentic organ experience, I bring the 4D.

Hi guys, my name is Tom and I am from germany.
I do have an Kurzweil SP4/7, an Nord 5d/73 and a Hammond XK-1 and I had an Hammond SK-1. I do have an neo-Ventilator 1.
I play in a cover-band and we do music of the 70, 80, 90, let´s say: Most of the time blues-rock!

You are right, Kurzweil isn´t my first choice looking for a good organ. But I bought sounds for my Kurzweil from Dave Weiser and from Barb & Co. Kurzweil is wonderful for piano, rhodes, wurly and therefore on stage I combine it with my Hammond.
I am a little bit disappointed of Nords Pianos! Yes, I know, what you will say, but the "strongness" in band-context of Nord isn´t good. You can improve the Sound with the eq (increasing the mids), but then you manipulate the piano-sounds and they don´t sound naturally. I think making studio-music the nord would be first choice.

My Slogan is: "Only Hammond sounds like Hammond."

Nord is good, but not as good as real Hammond (with neo1).
I consider to sell my Nord - though there is no good editor for my Kurzweil (Sound-Tower is terrible) and the editor of Nord is much better.
But the first purpose buying an Instrument is to play on it and have fun. I still have more fun on my (simple - only 64-bit-sounds) SP4/7, which is the same engine as PC3LEx.

Cheers
Tom

"I am a little bit disappointed of Nords Pianos!"

That really depends on what speakers are used on stage. Are you connected in stereo? To me, even the very best pianos sound terrible when played in mono through a keyboard amp. I play my 5D through two Bose L1 Compact speakers with no EQ. The pianos are among the best I've heard .

Welcome to the red world ....

Been playing them for many years. Have tried others (not Kurz though) and keep coming back. Here's why.

B3 sound. Nord may not be the best, but you'd have to go with an exotic to beat the native B3 sounds. The internal Leslie sims are more than enough for what I do. Had a Vent, sold it as I wasn't using it much. 999 out of 1000 listeners will love the sound. Screw that one guy.

The pianos rock my world, more than any other stage piano. APs and EPs both. Then again, I've invested in amplification (as above) to bring it all to the fore. You won't get a pre-processed preset that sounds good in the Nord world, sorry, you'll have to construct your own. Which I have, and I love it.

With Nord pianos, amplification really, really matters. Those high-quality samples demand high-quality amplification. A longer conversation here. I am adamant that people should spend on amplification as they do for instruments. After all, if people can't hear you, why bother?

May I just offer up a moment of love for my Nord Piano 2? It does it all -- emotional parts, layered parts, and -- most importantly -- those hard spanking parts that I love. I think I sound amazing, and people tell me the same thing. I go back and forth between a serious acoustic grand piano and my Nord Piano. Yes, they're different, but for me no problemo.

Over the years, my Nords have become my trusted friends on each and every of my hundreds of gigs. Great sounds, very tweakable, utterly reliable, upgradeable, and damn good looking. Whatever they build, I'll eventually buy it. No other keyboard mfg has delivered that sort of brand experience for me. They win in my book.

That being said, I bought a Behringer DeepMind 12 today. I think I need a walk on the wild side. I feel a little dirty

Best of luck!

It's okay to give your Nords friends. I have three of them myself and I still let them associate with the Sub37 and the Theremini (and the Push 2) and I'd add a VIrus TI2, if only I had a free MIDI port.

I'm not really qualified to comment here, but I did own a PC2x. And I really love the Piano 3 and the Lead A1 the most. I haven't really bonded with the 3P yet, but I also haven't really tried due to the A1. They're for people who care about UI, that's basically their secret sauce and "screw that one guy" also applies. They need serious amplification. Listen to the Piano 3 in good headphones and I dare you not to grin.

Hi guys, I don´t want to disturb your love to Nord-Keys and I understand all your arguments!

Yesterday I understood my problem, when I was at the local Nord-Dealer (in Frankfurt/Main). It´s the keyboard not the Nord.
I played the Nord5HP and the Nord Piano3 and they piano-sounds were very good.
But! Using "better keys" increases the weight.
And I did understand, that I will never play with the right equipment, using only one Nord-keyboard!
I must combine it with a second one.
The organ-sound is a kind of taste. Leslie-Sim of Nord is good, using a real Leslie is best, NEO-Ventilator (I have NEO 1) is the solution between - a combination of sound, weight and technical equipment.

Additional Point (esp. to derellpiper): You can´t compare PC2 with PC3K oder PC3A. It would be the same to compare NE1 to NE5.

Cheers!

cphollis wrote:Screw that one guy.

LOL