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Your experience with different Nord keybeds

Postby Lophophora » 21 Dec 2015, 01:30

Hello,

I am curious about what are your preferred keybeds for the music styles you are playing.

When playing a piece with an acoustic piano that needs lots of dynamics, I would assume the full weighted keybed of the Stage 2 is best. But what if you need to play a piece with an organ sound with quick playing or glissandos? Does the "heaviness" of the keys restrain you from playing fast enough?

And what about the semi-weighted version, do you think it is still "playable" with a dynamic piano piece?
Last edited by Lophophora on 21 Dec 2015, 19:52, edited 1 time in total.

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Your experience with different Nord keybeds


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Re: Your experience with different Nord keybeds

Postby fabiokey » 21 Dec 2015, 02:50

Hi !! I just switched from a 76 weighted to a 73 waterfall for weight reasons.... I have to say that the 73 waterfall keybed is anyway a very good quality keyboard. The point is that if I open a Kontakt plug in , I can control piano sound quite well even with waterfall keyboard, due to the possibility to custom my touch and my way to play piano with a CUSTOMIZABLE VELOCITY CURVE.
With last OS velocity curve for internal piano sound is better , but still I fill the lack of a really customizable velocity courve on Nord Keyboards. Would be great to 4 choices inside EVERY of the 4 nord piano curves.... is a software issue...maybe they'll do it.
Is just funny....I feel better to play an external VST piano on that keyboard , than the internal sound....
I know...if I want to play piano properly , then I have to use a weighted keyboard....true... But with a more customizable curve I'd use waterfall with no problems...
Then....organ , synth , clavinet , wurly and ELECTRIC PIANO with waterfall is great!!
Last edited by fabiokey on 21 Dec 2015, 02:52, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Your experience with different Nord keybeds

Postby RedLeo » 21 Dec 2015, 08:05

Unfortunately, this is the sixty-four thousand dollar question, and the only answer is, it depends on the individual whether they find it ok or not.

Playing traditional Hammond-style technique on a piano- action keyboard does compromise your technique: glisses and smears don't work so well, as the keyboard has to be pushed down quite far before the note sounds, and the action is a bit too sloppy. Nord keyboards do have a "High Trigger"
option for the piano action keyboard which allows the key to sound nearer the top of its travel. This helps, but doesn't entirely solve the problem. Whether you can play fast simply depends on whether you can play fast on a piano. If you've learned to play on a light synth or Hammond keyboard, you won't have the finger strength.

For playing piano on a semi-weighted action, again it does compromise your playing. The keys push down far more easily than you're used to on a piano, and it needs a delicate touch to get the loudness of the note right, it's easy to bang them all too hard. Different velocity curves can help here, but again, it's not perfect.

There is also a third option, although I don't know if Nord use these actions: simply a keyboard that is about halfway between. Some people find this good enough for both piano and organ, others would find it not good enough for either.

A better option that many people use is to have two keyboards, one weighted and one semi-weighted. Using MIDI to connect them, it's possible then to play the right sound on the right type of action.

This is something you really need to check out for yourself. People can give lots of good advice about their experience, but your tastes may well be different.


Edit:

Lophophora wrote:And what about the semi-weighted version, do you think it is still "playable" with a dynamic piano piece?


Just to be clear, when you say "semi-weighted", are you talking about a synth-style action, or the lighter Hammer action? If you're talking about the lightweight Hammer action, ignore what I said above, I was assuming you meant an actual lightweight synth action. The lightweight Hammer action is not usually described as semi-weighted, it is still called a weighted action.
Last edited by RedLeo on 21 Dec 2015, 08:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Your experience with different Nord keybeds

Postby Marlowes » 21 Dec 2015, 09:07

+1, RedLeo:
... and the only answer is, it depends on the individual whether they find it ok or not.

A better option that many people use is to have two keyboards, one weighted and one semi-weighted.


Yes, it's really very personal.
Right now I love to play all synths and epianos from an old Roland JV-80 as master ... :wtf:
And Ricard is using an old S-10 and Juno alpha 2.

/Vänligen
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NE3HP, NP88, NS2, DPP1, NL2X, NL2X, NLA1, NL4, NE5D, NW2 (Collect Them All?), some classic Rolands, Arturias, a Waldorf, a Kurz, a WONOK3, a pile of guitars, a P-bass, loopers, amps and computers ...
I'm a gearslut! :oops:
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Re: Your experience with different Nord keybeds

Postby GeeDeWee » 21 Dec 2015, 10:57

My NS2 88 has a HA-keybed (weighted). For piano-playing it's perfect. For Hammonds and fast synths it's adequate, but not perfect IMO. I agree with RedLeo on the two keyboards option and consider buying a semi-weighted MIDI keyboard with aftertouch to go along with my NS 2 88. Any suggestions which one I should get BTW?
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capabilities of the stage 2 EX compact 73

Postby posmo » 21 Dec 2015, 20:39

Hi. I am new to this game and have an electro 3 which i like and use mainly as an organ. My roland xp-80 workstation died and am considering getting a stage 2 EX compact. With my roland, I was able to set up performance patches (splits, layers or both) and having 2 ev-5 roland expression pedals, I used one for overall volume and the other to control the volume of particular sounds in a performance patch (organ, strings, bass, etc) So if i had a piano sound, I could use the pedal to bring in and out any of these other layered sounds with the pedal and if i have a performance patch where i have left hand bass, i could control the bass volume as well. (I read through another post on this subject which was mostly about midi) I know there is a jack for an organ swell pedal which, I assume would not affect the piano volume but for other sounds like strings and electric piano, can i use the morph feature to independently control various volumes? Also, what do you think of the acoustic piano sound quality of the stage 2 compared to let's say Roland or Korg or Yamama? Thanks.
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Re: capabilities of the stage 2 EX compact 73

Postby RedLeo » 22 Dec 2015, 01:41

posmo wrote:My roland xp-80 workstation died and am considering getting a stage 2 EX compact.


Before going into all the details, I would first consider whether a Stage 2 is the right replacement for your Roland. It may well not be. The Stage 2 is primarily a stage piano/organ/synth with some basic sample sound capability. It is not a replacement for a workstation. If you used the Roland to play the typical sounds - strings, brass, choirs etc, you will not find sounds of the same quality on the Stage. Its sampled sounds are really a sort of "basic get-you-by" rather than the sort of "full-production" sounds of the Roland. Also it is limited to a maximum of two sampled sounds at a time, you won't be able to make complex multi-timbral performances like you can on the XP-80.

If your replacement keyboard needs to do roughly the same job as the XP-80, I think you should really replace it with another similar workstation instead. Why not stick with Roland if you like the Roland sound?

A couple of suggestions: it's not really good to ask the same question in two places at once, and it would be far better to start your own thread rather than put entirely different questions in the middle of somebody else's. :)
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Re: Your experience with different Nord keybeds

Postby Lophophora » 22 Dec 2015, 02:09

RedLeo wrote:Just to be clear, when you say "semi-weighted", are you talking about a synth-style action, or the lighter Hammer action? If you're talking about the lightweight Hammer action, ignore what I said above, I was assuming you meant an actual lightweight synth action. The lightweight Hammer action is not usually described as semi-weighted, it is still called a weighted action.


I was just referring to what I read on the Clavia official site. In the Electro comparison charts they use the words "73-key Hammer Action Portable" and "73-key Semi-weighted Waterfall" while in the Stage chart they use "88-key Weighted", "76-key Hammer Action Portable", "73-key Semi-weighted" and "73-key Semi-weighted Waterfall". Quite confusing in the end. I am assuming they sometimes use different words for the same thing.
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Re: Your experience with different Nord keybeds

Postby RedLeo » 22 Dec 2015, 14:49

Lophophora wrote:
RedLeo wrote:I am assuming they sometimes use different words for the same thing.


You assume correctly ;)

It does get confusing, but it boils down to 4 different types:

Full-on piano-style fully-weighted hammer action.

Lightweight version of same, still called weighted.

Ordinary synth action, called semi-weighted

Hammond organ style, which is semi-weighted with waterfall keys.

And I wouldn't be surprised if I get told I've missed something...
Last edited by RedLeo on 22 Dec 2015, 14:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Your experience with different Nord keybeds

Postby Lophophora » 02 Jan 2016, 01:07

Hello,

I just installed my new Stage 2 EX and I'm so happy with it! I just came back here to confirm that the "73-key Hammer Action Portable" keybed on my Electro 4 HP and the "76-key Hammer Action Portable" on my new Stage 2 are slightly different, even though the names made me think they were identical. On the Stage 2, the feeling is softer and more pleasant when you reach the end of the travel. Both of them are excellent but the Stage 2 adds an even more velvety thing to it. Also, the trigger point setting makes it easier to play the organ. Actually it might have been possible to set this on the Electro 4 HP too, but I never tried.

Jan 5th edit: I just realized that besides the different feeling in the keys themselves, there is another difference between my Electro 4 HP and my Stage 2 EX: the dynamic range is not the same. On the latter, you can really play soft (without having to use the una corda from the Triple pedal) and loud. This is true no matter what "dynamics" settings I use on the Electro. To me it makes a huge difference because I had been playing a real piano for a long time before switching to stage keyboards.
Last edited by Lophophora on 05 Jan 2016, 09:54, edited 1 time in total.
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