This 'unofficial' Forum is dedicated to the Clavia Nord Keyboards, including the Nord Stage, Nord Electro and Nord Piano. Discuss any issues around Nord's keyboards, share your favorite patches, samples, and music. We are not affiliated with Clavia!
pablomastodon wrote:
I also take exception with SonicVI's comment that having an NS2 is "almost like have 2 Electros..." Truth is, an NS2 has more sound-producing power than half a dozen Electros! As Leo said, the Electro is monotimbral. The Stage 2 has six onboard sound engines all of which can be addressed at once across 1/2/3 zones. PLUS two External Sections for addressing external hard or soft devices. On a "bang-for-your-buck" basis, the NS2 kicks serious booty.
I take exception with your exception. It's not really like having 6 Electros either because you can only have two of each section going at a time. So you can have six sounds, but in a limited way. It's more like two Electros, if Electros could use more than one section at a time, and had a synth, pitch stick and mod wheel, external control and better effects.
Gen 1 is operative when the sustain pedal is depressed (out of Xanax) and the dampers are lifted from the entire harp. Gen 2 does not involve the sustped, only the notes which one is holding. Gen 2 is vastly more complex and therefore memory-consuming.
The update history notes for the NE4 do indicate some things relating to pianos, so perhaps this is what your ears are hearing.
As far as what sounds better on what, I think that there is subtle nuance involved, and that subtle nuance will almost always be completely lost in a live gig setting. Also, one could place three Steinways (or name your brand) side by side on a stage and perhaps discern subtle differences. It's all I can do to actually play the darn thing in a musically meaningful way, so I don't spend much time sweating the small stuff. They all sound pretty darn good to me.
Bless,
Pablo
Pablo, I understand what your saying, but I actually do feel a difference on gigs when I play the NS2 and Electro 4D acoustic pianos. This is why I've asked some questions. I've tried figuring it out at home but it's not obvious to me what's going on. Btw, I've experienced how different real acoustic pianos vary and have played Steinways that I couldn't stand. So while what you've said is correct it's missing the point I'm trying to convey. For me keyboards, electric or acoustic, provide varying amounts of inspiration. This is my gauge for excellence in a keyboard, but I sometimes struggle to understand or put in words why some inspire more than others. For example with the 1.18 upgrade the 4D seems more playable/inspiring but I can't explain why. Are the velocity curves different? I don't know. Thus my comments and questions regarding the differences between NS2 and Electro 4D acoustic piano samples. And yes I agree they both sound very good. To be honest when I bought them I expected the acoustic pianos to sound identical but this is not what I hear.
Those are big IFs, and also imaginary. Electros cannot use more than one section at a time, do not have a synth section or a pitch stick or a mod wheel or two external sections or better effects. By that logic, my Dodge Grand Caravan would be more like an Electro, if Electros had four wheels, a motor and a transmission (and a stereo that doesn't work).
It's true that the NS2 won't, for example, allow one to layer six pianos at once, but there are always two organs, two pianos and two synths available to all be played at once, plus two external sections and all that other stuff. My main underlying point is that on a raw comparison basis the NS2 is a HUGE bargain when reduced to "bang for your buck" details.
But I'm not trying to start any flame wars here, either. This is all just semantics. The real important thing for prospective buyers of ANY instrument (not just Nord) is to define one's currently existing musical needs and to determine whether those needs are static or may be changing over time, then buy the instrument which best fulfills those needs/wants. Many of the people I have the pleasure of serving are elderly musicians who are accustomed to playing a rhodes or a hammond or a .... They want that sound without the hassles of transporting bulk and weight and without the constant maintenance issues. They don't want crazy complexity. They just want to sit down, touch one button and be able to focus on just playing. I also sometimes speak with parents shipping for their 16 year-old son/daughter. They may wish to keep it simple, but more likely the teenager in the background is itching for the Stage because they want to be able to grow multi-dimensionally.
There will always be that "it" factor. And since we have different ears and different musical backgrounds, my "it" and your "it" may not coincide. But yes, there is definitely an "it" which when present can inspire in unique ways that do not occur when there's no "it" to be heard. I do not have any info which is more detailed than the update history notes published on the website and suspect that Nord would not be interested in discussing the items on that list in any more detailed way. They have identified a couple things which would enhance sonic results when tweaked, so they tweaked them.
I do have a general understanding that Nord builds each new model from the ground up. Using the example of their line of synths, starting from scratch every time instead of taking existing code and reworking it into another model can and does result in each synth having its own unique character. It is possible, perhaps even likely, that there are aspects of this associated with these other instruments as well. Your trust in your ears is probably well-placed.
Pablo
These users thanked the author pablomastodon for the post:
Wow. Thanks guys for the feedback. Very detailed, without any elitist tone for newbies like me,.. I am impressed!
I am mostly a guitar/bass player looking to supplement its compositions with supporting Rhodes/Wurlitzer/Piano/etc. As a result, not much need for multi-timbral/multi-instruments at one time/etc. Furthermore, being more electro-based than piano-based, I think I'd be better off with semi-weighted waterfall than hammer Action.
Therefore my conclusions is that an E4 SW73 with external drawbars (www.oceanbeachdigital.com) might be the way to include all my priorities (380MB which should be enough to load a lot of good instruments, Rotary speaker features, USB-Midi, FX)
Louis
These users thanked the author cheopsnet for the post (total 2):
Cheopsnet, for the use you've described I think you're making an excellent choice. With the memory in the SW73 being larger than the Electro 4D, you'll be able to fit an XL acoustic piano. This is needed to get the best acoustic piano sounds Nord offers. I strongly suspect the demos on the Nord website are XL size in order to show off their best stuff. Enjoy!
But I'm not trying to start any flame wars here, either. This is all just semantics.
Yes, it is. I think you've already taken it way more seriously than I ever intended. There is no precise mathematical way to compare the Stage with the Electro. All that needs to be said is that the Stage is at least 600% more versatile than the Electro at only about 30% greater price.
Last edited by SonicVI on 06 Nov 2014, 23:49, edited 4 times in total.
pablomastodon wrote:Anotherscott begins with a typo, should be NE4, not NE3.
Yup, thanks for catching that, fixed.
pablomastodon wrote:And there are some slight misconceptions here. The NS2 has Nord's 3rd Generation B3 model. The NE4 models have the same 3rd Generation B3 model except that some very slight tweaks were done to key click and bounce...The much bigger difference is in the rotary speaker features.
Right, when I said updated organ engine, I was referring largely to the rotary speaker emulation which is part of it. And that's also why I said that I felt you could also get to that destination by putting a Ventilator pedal (an improved rotary effect) on the NS2.
If money is not the issue you really should go for the Stage (compact ?) I believe. There is a big chance your demands will increase in time. It is going to be a big bummer of you find out than you can't layer and/or split your board.
And if somehow this is not going to happen you only paid for things you don't use, as money is not the issue this doesn't matter.
It all comes down to mathematics and risk management...
There is no precise mathematical way to compare the Stage with the Electro. All that needs to be said is that the Stage is at least 600% more versatile than the Electro at only about 30% greater price. 
