Nord User Forum

turnstyle wrote:

mjbrands wrote:

turnstyle wrote:fwiw, just heard back from Behringer: "The 302USB does need to be connected to the computer directly for it to function properly."

I know, that's why I mentioned it

Sorry if I was unclear -- that means I can't use it. But it turns out there's a new Q502USB (not yet available) that still works without a computer.

To add to the confusion: I misread your post as 'does not need to be connected'. They even supply it with one of those USB-style power supplies, so it would definitely work without a computer, but with a powered-USB hub (it needs to get its power from somewhere) if you want to be able to turn off your computer. Ah well, I'm sure Behringer knows their own products best

Anyway, that Q502USB is probably going to be pretty cheap too (I see prices like 53 euro) and has more features and an additional stereo input so you could connect all your Stage's outputs to it and flexibly change levels without changing stuff on the Stage itself.

Thanks again, and you're right: the 302USB page does say it comes with a power supply, so I'll ask them again.

fwiw, my main goal is to find something that fits in, and doesn't get in the way.

For example, am I correct to assume that with something like the Q502USB in place, I should really use it (rather than the Stage) to control the volume out the monitors? So it needs to be handy.

I have the Nord music stand, which is wider than I need, so I'm partly thinking the Q502USB could sit at one end. And then when I want to use my laptop, I could even open it to 180 degrees, and put it on the stand too.

I haven't found many alternatives, but if you happen to have any thoughts on these, I'd be very interested to hear them:

MOTU 4pre:
http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/4pre
The idea with the 4pre is that once I find a place for it, it could then also become the surface that I put the laptop on. Trouble is, I'm using the Nord stand and don't really have a place to put stuff.

Steinberg UR28M:
http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/au ... ur28m.html
I like the physical interface here.

In fact, I wish there was something like the Apogee Duet 2 that still worked standalone.

If you have any other suggestions, love to hear 'em...

turnstyle wrote: If you have any other suggestions, love to hear 'em...

Have been following this thread with great interest as I am looking for something similar. It surprises me that there are not more options in this segment.
For a while I used a Lexicon OMEGA (http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar04/a ... nomega.htm) from a friend and while it Audio IO gave me serious headeaches, the feature as stand alone Mixer even without PC on was really nice.
As I can see they are still sold, now at around one fourth of the original price (100 bucks or so), but I would be aware of driver issues etc. But if you consider amateur solutions, it might be worth looking at it, or qt leqst check lqtest experiences zith recent OS versions.
But there should definitively be more options out there, I would definitively be interested in a focusrite model being able to work in stand alone mode!

I think I found it:
http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/track16

turnstyle wrote:For example, am I correct to assume that with something like the Q502USB in place, I should really use it (rather than the Stage) to control the volume out the monitors? So it needs to be handy.

Well, you could still use the main volume knob on the Stage, but that would have the side effect of also lowering the volume of any recording you're making. Changing the volume on the input channel where the Stage goes into the mixer would be more or less the same as changing the output level (main volume knob) on the Stage. Changing the volume level for the mixer's output would change just the volume of the speakers (but for all input sources, including any sound you're playing back from your PC).

Strictly speaking, it would be best to run the loudest possible (without clipping) signals into the mixer, because that also means there's as little noise as possible. That'd might be important to get the best possible recording, but for general playing you might not hear much of a difference.

turnstyle wrote:MOTU 4pre:
http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/4pre
The idea with the 4pre is that once I find a place for it, it could then also become the surface that I put the laptop on. Trouble is, I'm using the Nord stand and don't really have a place to put stuff.

Unless you really want to be able to connect up to four microphones, the Ultralite mk3 might be a better choice. The Ultralite mk3 definitely has the built-in DSP mixer (which means it can keep sending a signal out the inputs if you disconnect/turn off the PC) - I don't see that the 4pre has the DSP mixer, but I could be mistaken. Physically the units are the same size and they can both be rack mounted, should you want to.

turnstyle wrote:Steinberg UR28M:
http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/au ... ur28m.html
I like the physical interface here.

That's an interesting unit that might make a neat solution. It is also a bit cheaper than the MOTU interface and at least you can change the mixing levels when the computer is turned off (unlike with the MOTU, or say the M-Audio C600). Personally I'd much rather have Steinway stuff than MOTU or M-Audio, both of which had serious customer support issues (M-Audio still has, MOTU may have solved them, dunno).

turnstyle wrote:Thanks again, and you're right: the 302USB page does say it comes with a power supply, so I'll ask them again.

ok, I asked, here's their reply: "My apologies for the confussion. The statement on the website that says: "Powered through USB or external power adaptor (included)" is a typo. The 302USB only has a USB connection to provide it's power. It does not have a connection to use a seperate power supply. It's power can only be provided by the computer, therefore it is recommended, for optimal performance, to connect the 302USB directly to the computer's USB port and not into a USB hub."

turnstyle wrote:

turnstyle wrote:Thanks again, and you're right: the 302USB page does say it comes with a power supply, so I'll ask them again.

ok, I asked, here's their reply: "My apologies for the confussion. The statement on the website that says: "Powered through USB or external power adaptor (included)" is a typo. The 302USB only has a USB connection to provide it's power. It does not have a connection to use a seperate power supply. It's power can only be provided by the computer, therefore it is recommended, for optimal performance, to connect the 302USB directly to the computer's USB port and not into a USB hub."

Customer: "Does the car have a spare tire?"
Car dealer: "Yes, it has good milage for a family car."

The 302USB only has a USB connection to provide it's power.

This bit is clearly untrue: if the USB connector is only used for power, how are you then able to record/playback audio using this mixer from your PC? How does the digital sound data go from the PC to the mixer? Magic?

It surprises me they gave you this answer.

It's power can only be provided by the computer, therefore it is recommended, for optimal performance, to connect the 302USB directly to the computer's USB port and not into a USB hub.

If the power can only be provided by a USB port on a computer, why do they then supply it with a USB power supply so you can use it without a computer?

I think I understand why they make this statement though: if you connect it to an (unpowered) USB hub, the mixer might not get enough power even with the computer turned on, because other equipment connected to the same USB hub might also use power.

If I'm home early enough tomorrow (= don't get stuck in traffic), I'll try to pick up one of these 302USB mixers from the local music store. I was already looking for a small mixer for my Shruthis and this would fit the bill and is fairly cheap.

I read his reply as: it doesn't come with a standalone power supply, and that it needs to be attached to a computer to work -- I was told this twice, but they could still be wrong...

Had some time this afternoon to pick up the Behringer 302USB and a powered USB 2.0 hub (though I'm sure a powered USB 1.1 hub would work too).

It is a nice, metal unit with plastic sides that is surprisingly heavy for its size. It comes with a USB power supply, USB cable and the manual (not the best). Physically the unit is about as big as two packets of playing cards (laying side by side) and about twice as high. It doesn't have nice rubber feet (which I'd want if I were to place it on my precious Nord), but you could of course glue some on yourself.

I plugged the power supply of the powered USB hub into the wall and connected the 302USB with its included USB cable to the powered USB hub. When I did, the power LED on the top-right of the unit turned on. Then I plugged my Sennheiser PC350 gamer's headset (has a 3.5 mm headphone and a 3.5 mm microphone jack) into the Behringer's headset connectors on the top-right. I connected a phone to the Line input and an iPad to the 2-track input, with both of them playing a different song. I connected a single monitor (Roland Cube CM-30, the rest of my stuff is in storage) to the Main Mix output.

Using the switches, I could choose for both the 2-track and the Line input if I wanted to send them to the headphone (Phones) or to the Main Mix (which also sends it to the headphone). For the Line input I could change the loudness using the provided pot and the EQ and panning controls to further change the sound (the 2-track input doesn't have these).

Since this all worked fine, I plugged the USB cable of the hub itself into my Mac. It found a 'USB audio Codec' and the sound kept coming from the Roland monitor without any hick-up or unwanted noise. I then started Ableton Live and was able to record (up to 16-bit @ 48 KHz) the sound I could hear on the Main Mix via the monitor. I then muted both the phone and the iPad (on the devices themselves) and pushed the red button on the Behringer to switch from Line to 'USB Play' input. I then pressed Play in Live and had the bit I recorded coming from the monitor.

I pushed the red button again (selecting Line input) and started the music on the phone/iPad again to get more racket blaring out from the Roland to annoy my mother-in-law (who just happened to arrive and was very tired). I then pulled the USB connector out of my Mac and the music kept on playing. I then pulled the USB hub's power supply from the wall (which turned the Behringer off and shut up the Roland) and made some tea for my mother-in-law to calm her nerves.

To summarize, the unit did what I wanted to and it feels quite solid. The knobs are a bit wobbly, but not more so than on some other mixers (costing up to 200 euro) I tested in the shop. I forgot to test the mic input with Rohde NT1A condensor mic that needs phantom power (the interface provides 15 instead of the normal 48 volt, but apparently that is enough). It worked fine with the mic on the headset.

Some points of interest:
- the mic input is always active and sent to the Main Mix output
- if you use the 'headset mic input' instead of the XLR one, all the controls in the Mic input section work as expected, including the clipping LED
- unlike what was said in some review video I found, the panning control in the Mic section correctly pans the (mono) Mic signal in the stereo field of the Main Mix output
- the USB interface records the Main Mix output

Possible usage scenario:
- connect the Nord to the 2-track input (since it doesn't need volume or EQ controls) and send that to the Main Mix output
- leave the Line input empty (or connect some other instrument or maybe a CD player) and set the output to go just to the headphones, not the Main Mix
- connect the Main Mix outputs to the monitors (or a regular hifi installation, pc speakers, etc)
- leave the Mic input empty (if so, turn the gain and volume knobs all the way down) or connect a microphone
- connect the Behringer via the powered USB hub to the PC (or without power or even directly, if you don't want to be able to use it without the PC connected/on)

Put on your headphones and start the recording software on the PC. Then (also on the PC, or via some other audio source connected to the Line input) start playback of some song (mp3, etc.) and play along to it.

You'll hear both the Nord and the song on the headphone, but the PC will only record the sound of the Nord. If you did want to record the sound of the song too, just press a button on the Behringer and the song is send to the Main Mix and this the PC too). Of course, instead of the song coming from the PC/CD-player, you could also connect a 2nd keyboard or something like that.

Edit: I forgot to test if the sound the USB interface records is taken before or after the gain knob for the Main Mix output. I would assume after. If that's the case, using it to turn down the volume on the connected monitors would also mean the recording on the PC gets more quiet (probably not what you'd want).

mjbrands wrote:
I pushed the red button again (selecting Line input) and started the music on the phone/iPad again to get more racket blaring out from the Roland to annoy my mother-in-law (who just happened to arrive and was very tired). I then pulled the USB connector out of my Mac and the music kept on playing. I then pulled the USB hub's power supply from the wall (which turned the Behringer off and shut up the Roland) and made some tea for my mother-in-law to calm her nerves.

I love this, completely cracked me up. I love you sense of humour MJ.

Very informative post and interesting read. Sounds great value for money.

I'm still loving the RME Babyface not for Turnstyle though