Everything about the Nord Wave Synthesizer

Issue with MIDI "Local" Feature

Postby OscBombs » 21 Oct 2012, 17:05

I'm trying to control the Wave from an external controller, and use the Wave's keyboard to play a separate sound source. To do this, in the MIDI section, I'm setting the MIDI channel on the Wave and to the external synth to "2", and then setting the control channel for Slot A and Slot B as well as my external controller to "1."

However, when I play the notes on the Wave keyboard, it plays both the external synth, as well as the Wave. I am switching Local to "off" and it says "off" on the LCD, but when I play notes on the keyboard, it still plays the sounds from the Wave.

Any ideas?

Thanks!
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Issue with MIDI "Local" Feature


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Re: Issue with MIDI "Local" Feature

Postby mjbrands » 21 Oct 2012, 17:13

Pull the cable that's in the Wave's MIDI IN port out. I expect MIDI is being echoed back to the Wave (by an external device).

Another way to check this would be to choose two very different sounds for slot A and slot B. Set the sound in slot B to channel 3 (so global on 1, A on 2 and B on 3) and make sure only slot B is enabled on the front-panel of the Wave. If slot B makes sound, that's because the Wave received MIDI on it's global channel; B is making sound because it is enabled and is getting notes via the global channel (ch 1) even though B itself is on ch 3 and isn't getting any MIDI notes directly. If slot A makes sound, it is getting notes via MIDI ch 2 directly.

I don't expect there to be any issues if Local Control when turned off; I'm convinced there's some external thing sending MIDI back to the Wave.
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Re: Issue with MIDI "Local" Feature

Postby OscBombs » 22 Oct 2012, 01:52

Thanks so much for the reply! I believe you're on to something... When I pull the MIDI In cable from the Wave (and keep local set to "off"), and I play the Wave keyboard to control a separate synth, the Wave no longer makes sound, but I am able to play the external synth.

However, I still need to be able to control the Wave's sound from a separate controller.

I'm confused... Are you saying that, one of my other pieces of gear would be sending a signal back to the Nord on Channel 1?

There are only two other pieces of gear in the set up: a controller set to Channel 10, and my external synth set to receive MIDI on Channel 2 (from the Wave). It doesn't look like the external synth is sending anything on Channel 1.

Would you know how I would be able to make sure that the Wave isn't receiving any global signals?

Thanks!
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Re: Issue with MIDI "Local" Feature

Postby mjbrands » 22 Oct 2012, 17:37

OscBombs wrote:I'm confused... Are you saying that, one of my other pieces of gear would be sending a signal back to the Nord on Channel 1?

Well, not necessarily channel 1 (could also be channel 2) but yeah, that's pretty much what I meant.

OscBombs wrote:There are only two other pieces of gear in the set up: a controller set to Channel 10, and my external synth set to receive MIDI on Channel 2 (from the Wave). It doesn't look like the external synth is sending anything on Channel 1.

Would you know how I would be able to make sure that the Wave isn't receiving any global signals?

If i goes away when you pull the cable out of the MIDI IN port, you've just proven it comes in via the MIDI IN port. :lol:

Do you happen to have a MIDI interface for your computer, or do you know someone who could lend you one for a few quick tests? What I suggest is that you connect the cable you had in the Wave's MIDI IN port to the MIDI IN port on that interface. You then run a free utility (MIDI-OX on Windows and MIDI Monitor on Mac) that will show you what's being sent to that MIDI port. You'll likely see note on/off messages on either channel 1 or 2 that happen when you press a key on the Wave. The next step would be to plug the cable connected to the MIDI OUT port on your external equipment (that might very well be the one you pulled out of the Wave's MIDI IN port) and test if you also see those messages coming out of that MIDI OUT port.

What kind of synth is that other piece of external equipment? Is it possible it has some kind of 'soft thru' function that can be turned on and off?
Last edited by mjbrands on 22 Oct 2012, 17:38, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Issue with MIDI "Local" Feature

Postby OscBombs » 22 Oct 2012, 21:50

Thanks for the awesome advice! I'll check out that utility when I get home. Yes, I've got an iConnect MIDI interface.

The external synth is a DSI Tempest. I went through the menu screens to make sure nothing was sending MIDI via Channel 1, but I couldn't find anything.
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Re: Issue with MIDI "Local" Feature

Postby mjbrands » 23 Oct 2012, 00:35

I had a look at the manual too. In version 1.2 of the software (manual addendum) they added a 'Slave Thru' mode, but that only forwards clock and MMC MIDI messages, not note on/off, etc.

I'm getting very curious as to where you're mystery notes are coming from :-)
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Re: Issue with MIDI "Local" Feature

Postby OscBombs » 29 Oct 2012, 00:53

Ok, I gave it a shot. However, the answer still isn't obvious to me.

I ran the MIDI Monitor utility, and it appears, when I hit a key on the Nord, that the only info being recorded is on Channel 10. Nothing is appearing on Channels 1 or 2.

If it matters, the info being reported is Source= iCM DIN2 (I believe this is just the identity given to the MIDI cable coming from the Nord), Channel 10, and then the MIDI data for note # and velocity.

Would it appear I'm doing this correctly to isolate the issue?

However, I also ran a separate test to see if I could narrow down the possibilities:

I removed the MIDI connections from the other instruments connected via the Network. So, I removed the MIDI Out cable from the Tempest, and removed the USB cable from my Akai controller, so only the Nord is fully connected to the iConnect MIDI interface. And... I'm still experiencing the issue: When Local is OFF (but the MIDI IN cable is in), I still cannot prevent the Nord keyboard from playing the local synthesizer. I believe this eliminates the possibilities that the Tempest or Akai are somehow sending data to the Nord on Channels 1 and/or 2.

Would that indicate that it might be something within the iConnect MIDI interface? I just read through the manual online, but there doesn't appear to be any features available that would toggle this on and off.

mjbrands, if you have any ideas, they'd be much appreciated! You've been awesome.
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Re: Issue with MIDI "Local" Feature

Postby mjbrands » 29 Oct 2012, 18:40

OscBombs wrote:I ran the MIDI Monitor utility, and it appears, when I hit a key on the Nord, that the only info being recorded is on Channel 10. Nothing is appearing on Channels 1 or 2.

Could you confirm what the following settings are in the MIDI menu?
  • MIDI Channel
  • MIDI Ctrl A Channel
  • MIDI Ctrl B Channel
Also, which slot was selected when you tried this?

OscBombs wrote:If it matters, the info being reported is Source= iCM DIN2 (I believe this is just the identity given to the MIDI cable coming from the Nord), Channel 10, and then the MIDI data for note # and velocity.

Would it appear I'm doing this correctly to isolate the issue?

So far so good; except the use of channel 10 is a bit odd. Might be because of your settings in the Nord's MIDI menu though.

OscBombs wrote:I removed the MIDI connections from the other instruments connected via the Network.

What do you mean with 'network'? All the stuff connected via MIDI?

OscBombs wrote:So, I removed the MIDI Out cable from the Tempest, and removed the USB cable from my Akai controller, so only the Nord is fully connected to the iConnect MIDI interface. And... I'm still experiencing the issue: When Local is OFF (but the MIDI IN cable is in), I still cannot prevent the Nord keyboard from playing the local synthesizer. I believe this eliminates the possibilities that the Tempest or Akai are somehow sending data to the Nord on Channels 1 and/or 2.

That does indeed seem to exclude the Tempest and the Akai.

OscBombs wrote:Would that indicate that it might be something within the iConnect MIDI interface? I just read through the manual online, but there doesn't appear to be any features available that would toggle this on and off.

Wow. I just had a look at the iConnectMIDI interface and that can do a lot of stuff it seems. Also, I'm convinced now that it's that interface that is causing this. It isn't merely a simple MIDI interface, it can do all kinds of fancy stuff with MIDI (filtering, routing, bridging between different types of MIDI connections without needing a computer) - I can see why you used the term 'network'.

Here's a snippet from the information page about it:
MIDI Bridge (no computer required)
- bridge between USB MIDI 1.0 devices and classic MIDI DIN devices
- bridge between multiple USB MIDI 1.0 devices

MIDI Merge
- merge two or more MIDI input ports to a single output port
- maintains small overflow buffer for each port to handle flux of events
- configurable for multiple merge routes

MIDI Thru
- send a MIDI input port to one or more output port
- configurable for multiple thru routes
- by default, iConnectMIDITM will pass all MIDI ports to all other MIDI ports

MIDI Mute on Input
- mute unwanted events from a particular MIDI input from getting into the system.
- mute by event groups

MIDI Mute on Output
- mute unwanted events from being sent to specific MIDI outputs from the system.
- mute by event groups

MIDI Route
- intelligent MIDI data routing and management

Configuration Storage
- when you have iConnectMIDI configured to just how you want it, save the configuration into internal memory - settings will be used on next power up - no computer required.

I see several items that might be causing issues. I think you should check with the Port Manager V2 app to see what's going on. The Routing and Global Settings section seem promising.

When you tested, did you have a computer connected to the iConnectMIDI interface?
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Re: Issue with MIDI "Local" Feature

Postby OscBombs » 30 Oct 2012, 23:50

Thanks for the reply!

I've got MIDI Channel set to 10 (note the problem persists even when I change this to another channel), Ctrl A and Ctrl B set to 10. The results are the same if I have slot A or B selected. Note: I set the MIDI Channels to 9 and 10, just as random channels (but I'm assuming the outcome would be the same regardless of what I set it to).

By "network," yes, I just meant all devices hooked up via MIDI, so I could run the MIDI Monitor application. But the application didn't tell me anything I didn't already assume.. it only reported wh

Hm... I'm actually not seeing the iConnect MIDI features you're referencing. Here's the PDF manual for the unit I have:
http://iconnectivity.com/downloads/iCon ... %200.5.pdf

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by Port Manager V2... Is that a separate desktop utility from MIDI Monitor that I should try out?

Yes, when I tested, I hooked up my computer to the iConnect MIDI.

Let me know any thoughts!!

Thanks!
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Re: Issue with MIDI "Local" Feature

Postby mjbrands » 31 Oct 2012, 19:29

OscBombs wrote:Hm... I'm actually not seeing the iConnect MIDI features you're referencing. Here's the PDF manual for the unit I have:
http://iconnectivity.com/downloads/iCon ... %200.5.pdf

Check the list of features on page 10; page 28 also has some more info. Granted, this is all rather light on information. From what I understand, you'll need that (free) iOS application to configure that stuff and maybe that application has decent help information built into it.

OscBombs wrote:Also, I'm not sure what you mean by Port Manager V2... Is that a separate desktop utility from MIDI Monitor that I should try out?

Nah, that's that free iOS application I'm referring to above. You'd need an Apple iPhone or iPad to use it.

This is the information page about it on the Apple site: https://itunes.apple.com/app/portmanage ... 17287?mt=8

The manual has this to say on page 28:
The default configuration

A default configuration exists for iConnectMIDI in the absence of a customized configuration
using the port configuration software and in the absence of a computing device. By default, all
USB ports send to all other ports except themselves, but MIDI DIN ports send to all other ports
including themselves.

If I read this correctly, it means that all MIDI received on the standard MIDI ports (DIN 5 plugs) is sent back out again on all other ports (both USB and DIN 5) including the port it came from. In other words, the interface 'echoes' MIDI data it receives from the Wave back to the Wave.

What if you set the Wave's 'global channel' (that's not what it's called on the Wave, that's the name they use on the Stage 2 - it makes more sense to me though) to, for example, channel 1, slot A to 9 and slot B to 10? In other words, make sure the 'MIDI Channel' (as the manual calls it) uses a different channel than both 'MIDI Ctrl A/B Channels'. The interface would still send back MIDI notes to the Wave, but they will be received on channel 1 (since that is what they were sent on) and should be ignored, since slots A and B are listening to channels 9 and 10 (respectively). You could of course use the same channel for A and B, if you need that.

Of course, this is just a work-around. If the way the interface works now bugs you, changing the config so it works the way you want it to would be the way to go, but that does require access to an iPhone or iPad.
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