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Yamaha P200 Piano 1

Postby perfectsam » 20 Jul 2011, 10:29

Credit goes to Aaron Krister Johnson who sampled his P200 piano sound and made a SoundFont. What I did was:

- Extracted the wav files from the sf2 (using Xtrakk). I obtained 44 wav files, 2 files for each key L(mono) +R(mono), which means he sampled 22 keys in total (every Bb, D and F#).
- Merged each left & right file to obtain 22 stereo wav files (using Audacity).
- Assigned them to keys in the Nord Sample Editor and generated the sample file (I didn't use any other options, first time using it.)

But here comes the big downside. Sadly, it's not possible to add more than 1 velocity layer in the Sample Editor. So the sample only has 1 layer (~ff) which means it's only really usable if you only play very loud all the time ;) If you play quietly, it almost sounds like a harpsichord due to the fact that it's still as bright as it is when you play loud.

You might add a lot of mids and bass and remove the highs a bit. Using the frequency knob in the synth section is a good idea as well.
Attachments
P200_Piano1_Stereo.nsmp
Added Amplitude "high", Filter "150Hz" and VELDYN Enabled for NE3 users
(7.45 MiB) Downloaded 1209 times
Last edited by perfectsam on 31 Jul 2012, 12:24, edited 3 times in total.
Nord Stage 2 HA88 RevB / Yamaha P200

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Yamaha P200 Piano 1


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Re: Yamaha P200 Piano 1

Postby Hanon_CTS » 20 Jul 2011, 14:58

Hello perfectsam,
Thanks for the sample.
I'm guessing that you made for the NS2 users.
The NE3 has the ability to control amplitude and filter via velocity, but it has to be enabled in the Nord Sample Editor software before hitting the generate button.
The setting are in the Sample Preset tab "Velocity Controlled Dynamics"
I'm sure that the Electro 3 owners would find added benefit if you set the bullets on:
VEL DYN Enable.
Amplitude "HIGH"
Filter "150HZ"

Thanks in advance.
Cheers, Hanon
Last edited by Hanon_CTS on 31 Jul 2012, 12:24, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Yamaha P200 Piano 1

Postby perfectsam » 20 Jul 2011, 15:31

Thanks for pointing that out, Hanon. I made the 3 changes, generated a new sample and exchanged the sample in my post above with it. So these settings are NE3 only and don't make any difference with the NS2?
Last edited by perfectsam on 31 Jul 2012, 12:24, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Yamaha P200 Piano 1

Postby Hanon_CTS » 20 Jul 2011, 15:47

perfectsam wrote:Thanks for pointing that out, Hanon. I made the 3 changes, generated a new sample and exchanged the sample in my post above with it. So these settings are NE3 only and don't make any difference with the NS2?

Yes, I think that is the case. I don't have a NS2 yet, but I haven't had anyone post back saying that they noticed any differences when those features are enabled and used with NS2. I think that it just ignores them.
There are far more NE3 users on the forum than NS2 "at least for now".
I'm looking forward to recording another pass of the "Blind taste test MIDI file" using your new sample.

Thanks and Cheers, Hanon
Last edited by Hanon_CTS on 31 Jul 2012, 12:24, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Yamaha P200 Piano 1

Postby samuele74 » 20 Jul 2011, 15:52

thanks perfectsam! great work! looking forward to be able to create (from sample editor or other tools) .npno files, with layers & all the benefit that the piano engine could give to the sample (in that way I'm pretty shure we'll be able ro rebuild every piano sound we might need...)
Last edited by samuele74 on 31 Jul 2012, 12:24, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Yamaha P200 Piano 1

Postby perfectsam » 21 Jul 2011, 09:41

Hanon_CTS wrote:Yes, I think that is the case. I don't have a NS2 yet, but I haven't had anyone post back saying that they noticed any differences when those features are enabled and used with NS2. I think that it just ignores them.

Just to confirm: I compared both samples on my NS2 (one with NE3 settings and one without them) and it didn't make the slightest difference.

@samuele74
Yes, that would be indeed amazing. And another major selling point imo. But I dont know if Clavia would like to see people with Nord products using Roland or Yamaha sounds. ;)
Last edited by perfectsam on 31 Jul 2012, 12:24, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Yamaha P200 Piano 1

Postby colourisred » 21 Jul 2011, 12:09

perfectsam wrote:
@samuele74
... But I dont know if Clavia would like to see people with Nord products using Roland or Yamaha sounds...


As this is possible in a limited way (only one layer) I see no reason why Clavia should have a problem.
In contrast: the ability to "clone" any pianosound with a limited amount of layers (lets say 3 or 4) could attract many new customers.

And it should really be no big problem to add a "velocitylayerfeature" to OS and Sample Editor.
At the latest when Electro 4 or Stage 3 are on the way I'm sure we'll see it.
Sorry for my English
Last edited by colourisred on 31 Jul 2012, 12:24, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Yamaha P200 Piano 1

Postby Hanon_CTS » 22 Jul 2011, 01:37

Hello All,
There are limitations to what can be achieved by re-sampling, especially with regard to complex instruments like pianos.
The first big obstacle is the single velocity layer. The Nord Sample Editor software is limited to one velocity layer. The is some level of quasi-velocity control that can be exerted over amplitude and the filter, but pianos have a very different mix of harmonics depending on how hard each note is played. Better simulations have at least four different samples per note, one for each group of velocities pp-p-f-ff. The more velocity layers, the more realistic the simulation.
Another obstacle is the sample rate, NSE is limited to working with 44.1KHz samples.
An often overlooked issue is polyphony. The Piano section of the NS2 is 40 to 60 notes, when you use the synth section to playback a sample, you're limited to 18 note polyphony, 16 on the NSEx and NE3.

As a test, and example: I've loaded the P200 Piano 1 sample "provided by perfectsam" into my NE3 and used the same MIDI file that recorded just for the "Pianos Taste Test" to create a demo of the sound.
This isn't intended to be a representation of what an actual P200 sounds like, only an example of what is lost in the re-sampling process.
In certain ranges and contexts, I find this sample to be useful.

This demo was played on my NE3 with a little on-board reverb

Attachments
P200_ReSample.mp3
(1.59 MiB) Downloaded 2581 times
Last edited by Hanon_CTS on 31 Jul 2012, 12:24, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Yamaha P200 Piano 1

Postby samuele74 » 23 Jul 2011, 10:02

Hanon_CTS wrote:Hello All,
An often overlooked issue is polyphony. The Piano section of the NS2 is 40 to 60 notes, when you use the synth section to playback a sample, you're limited to 18 note polyphony, 16 on the NSEx and NE3.


I have a dream: nord sample editor EX, that could produce not only sample-format files but also nsmp piano files... I'm big fan of "open-source" way of thinking/behaving in many way, not only at work with computers, and opening the way to produce nord piano sound COULD deliver very intresting effects...

I'm aware that clavia use PROFESSIONAL and passionate people to produce great product and great sound, but business is business and you "have to stop" at a certain quality point.

but if clavia users are more focused on quality sound, they are musician, the have knowledge in recording and maybe in samplying, the have acoustic piano (in most cases)...

Maybe they COULD produce some sound with the right layers, the right mapping on keyboard, the right "body", where right is a "large term" to indicate what is right for each one of us in terms of music taste...

Maybe Clavia could make a BIG gift to the community giving way to produce piano sound from sample editor (or a "bumped version" of the sw) and the community could, in exchange, produce sound for the community, creating more and more desire for clavia products.
Last edited by samuele74 on 31 Jul 2012, 12:24, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Yamaha P200 Piano 1

Postby anotherscott » 30 Jul 2011, 04:11

Hanon_CTS wrote:I'm guessing that you made for the NS2 users.
The NE3 has the ability to control amplitude and filter via velocity, but it has to be enabled in the Nord Sample Editor software before hitting the generate button.

FYI, the NS2 can also control amplitude and filter via velocity. To control filter via velocity, turn the "Freq Mod 2" knob counter-clockwise from the 12:00 position (the more you turn it, the larger the effect). To control amplitude via velocity, enable the "Amp Env Velocity" button. There is also a third velocity-controllable parameter, "Mode Env Velocity" which will increase the intensity of your envelope settings with velocity.
Last edited by anotherscott on 31 Jul 2012, 12:24, edited 2 times in total.
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