NS3C vs NE5D - B3 & Other comparison

[cgrafx]

I just spent time going through both keyboards to compare the two side-by-side (stacked actually). All testing was done through a set of Sony V6 headphones with matching audio paths to our studio mixer.

Piano Section - Acoustic Pianos
I didn't test every piano sample, I listened to a couple and quickly determined they pretty much sound the same so just focused my attention on the Royal Grand 3D XL.

Subjectively the NS3C maybe had a slightly cleaner top end.

A side note on the acoustic pianos

1. All of them have too much room/ambient noise in them. I don't want my piano to sound like a recording of a piano in a room I want it to sound like just the piano (that way it will get the acoustics of the room I'm playing in or what I add to it with effects as needed).
2. They all sound pingy on the initial hammer hit (sort of like a harpsichord) particularly obvious when you select the bright tone setting. This is not just a Nord problem, its also one of the things I don't like about many of the electronic keyboards (Korg, Roland, etc).

Organ Section - B3
There are definitely a lot more controls on the NE5D that you can modify, but the basic sound of the two boards is almost identical as of OS v1.36.

1. You don't have control over the percussion settings like you do on the NE5D
- There is no control over the 9th drawbar when percussion is turned on and it incorrectly does not disable the 9th drawbar.
- There is no Percussion Volume Control
- There is no percussion decay settings for (fast/slow)

2. There is better control over distortion on the NS3 (the NS3C can produce a cleaner/less distorted sound than the NE5).

On the NE5D when you turn on the Leslie Sim, you also enable the amp sim and there is a small amount of distortion you can not turn off. On the stage, the Leslie sim is separate from the amp sim, so when you turn on the Leslie you don't automatically get the additional distortion present on the NE5D. However, once the Amp sim is enabled on the NS3C and dialed up just a bit it matches the sound of the NE5D very closely. Absolutely close enough to not matter.

[Hobster]

That pretty well sums up my experience of going from the NE5D to the NS3C (at one point I had both for a couple of weeks and did very similar comparisons).
I'm hoping Nord will give us some more control over the percussion settings in a future update...

[Rusty Mike]

- There is no control over the 9th drawbar when percussion is turned on and it incorrectly does not disable the 9th drawbar.

That is probably the one and only thing that irks me about the Stage 2EX. It's so inauthentic.

I'm not a programmer, but how much code could it possibly take to enable/disable this characteristic? They already do it in the Electro's and organs.

Or, better yet, just make it behave the right way. Steal the 1' drawbar for percussion.

[anotherscott]

A side note on the acoustic pianos ...They all sound pingy on the initial hammer hit ... This is not just a Nord problem, its also one of the things I don't like about many of the electronic keyboards (Korg, Roland, etc).

I agree about the excessive percussiveness on many digital pianos, and I actually find it to be less on at least some of the Nord pianos compared to some other brands. My theory for when this happens is that they are sampling too close to the hammers, where the sound is probably more percussive, but is not a place our ears ever are. Though a more "natural" (more distant) placement might work against your other complaint, of it sounding too much like it's in the room it was recorded in (though I've never been bothered by that on the Nords, personally). I suspect that moving the mics farther from the hammer but keeping them still very close to the strings might provide a different tone. Maybe there's no perfect answer?

- There is no Percussion Volume Control
- There is no percussion decay settings for (fast/slow)

Just for clarity's sake, though you obviously are aware... there are of course percussion volume and decay controls from the front panel, you just don't have the ability to further tweak their behaviors. I figured I'd mention it in case someone ends up finding this post through a google search or something. I was kind of astonished when I discovered that the new Vox Continental's tonewheel emulation mode (CX3) actually does lack those controls! (Along with 2nd/3rd.)

Besides the ones you mention, there are some other NE5D organ menu controls/parameters that I believe are missing on the NS3. IIRC, you can't adjust the key click as high (which is a shame, because I did pick the highest option on my NE5D), nor the leakage (the highest NE5D setting reproduces the authentic experience of hearing leakage through the Leslie even when you're not playing any notes, I don't think the NS3C has that?), and it may not have as many options for balance between the horn and rotor.

Or, better yet, just make it behave the right way. Steal the 1' drawbar for percussion.

I don't know about "better" (than having the choice), but agree... if there is some constraint limiting their ability to make it a user option and it has to be set one way or the other, it would seem to make sense to set it the more authentic way. So maybe the constraint isn't in the NS3-specific code that would permit them to implement the option, but rather in the NS3-specific code that would permit them to implement the behavior...? Or maybe this is something they could yet address.

But it's an interesting question as to whether authenticity is always the best goal. As I mentioned above, the NE5D leakage setting where you hear the leakage constantly (even when not playing anything) is the most authentic, but I suspect "real" Hammond players would turn that off if they could. I wonder if they see the 1' drawbar stealing similarly as an "unfortunate artifact" that more players would prefer not be the case...?

[Rusty Mike]

I don't know about "better" (than having the choice), but agree... if there is some constraint limiting their ability to make it a user option and it has to be set one way or the other, it would seem to make sense to set it the more authentic way. So maybe the constraint isn't in the NS3-specific code that would permit them to implement the option, but rather in the NS3-specific code that would permit them to implement the behavior...? Or maybe this is something they could yet address.

But it's an interesting question as to whether authenticity is always the best goal. As I mentioned above, the NE5D leakage setting where you hear the leakage constantly (even when not playing anything) is the most authentic, but I suspect "real" Hammond players would turn that off if they could. I wonder if they see the 1' drawbar stealing similarly as an "unfortunate artifact" that more players would prefer not be the case...?

I think it's a matter of playing style. I believe Jim Alfredson once mentioned this as well. When percussion steals the 1' drawbar, you can have it set to some value so that when you disengage the percussion, you get a bit of shimmer for comping. Quite popular among the jazz players. I like to use this technique, which is not possible on the Stage, unless you use the 2nd Preset, which, in turn, takes away your ability to have a "B" and "B flat" preset setting for the organ.

Maybe it is a quirk of the original, but players have made good use of it.

[Framerate]

The Royal Grand 3D is softer in the attack I think. It’s more like the grand on the PX-5S.