Nord User Forum

[Pidcin]

Ughhh I don’t get it !

Can someone describe this in terms of “my keyboard can only play one organ sound , one piano or one synth at a time?

[anotherscott]

I'm not sure, but I think you're referring to the scenario I listed earlier where the objective is:

"Use 2nd keyboard to trigger Panel B while tweaking Panel B settings on the Nord itself, without playing Panel B from the Nord"

In this particular case, the external keyboard can only be set to trigger a single sound (a piano, an organ, or a synth).

It's a pretty specific situation. If you're playing the panel B sound from an external keyboard and don't ned to tweak that panel B sound while simultaneously playing only the panel A sound from the Nord's internal keyboard, you can still trigger multiple sounds from an external keyboard using the MIDI Panel feature (instead of the Dual KB feature).

[KeesKooijman]

I noticed an additional problem when using the panel B mode:
My setup consist of a NS3 compact with a 88 weighted keyboard. I regularly use a piano patch with a (string) pad on top of this. With the V1.24 I am forced to use the panel B mode controlling the entire B panel from the external keyboard. This works (despite the inability to tweak the B sounds while playing A).
The problem starts when I want to transpose the entire setup to a different key (yes, I am lazy sometimes). I was expecting to transpose panel A and B simultaneously, however only A is transposed and therefore I have to transpose the external keyboard as well. This will undoubtedly lead to a mistake in a future live situation.

An alternative I was working on, back to using the dualKB mode, was the following:
I could use a cheap external sound module to do the layer pads on top of the piano sounds controlled from the external keyboard. So I could use the dualKB function where the transpose function now does work on panel A AND B. It would be convenient to control the external sound module from the external section on panel B. But: there is no way to trigger the external module from an external keyboard via the NS3. It only allows to select a single B engine so it is impossible to control the external section from the external keyboard.

This leaves me clueless. Anybody having ideas?

[anotherscott]

there is no way to trigger the external module from an external keyboard via the NS3 {in dualKB mode}. It only allows to select a single B engine so it is impossible to control the external section from the external keyboard.

This leaves me clueless. Anybody having ideas?

You could connect the external module directly to the external keyboard. If your external module as a MIDI Thru function, you would wire from he keyboard's MIDI OUT to the module's MIDI IN, and then form the module's MIDI THRU to the NS3's MIDI IN. If the module does not have a Thru function, you'd need a MIDI Thru box to be able to go from the external keyboard to both destinations. It's not ideal, there are some limitations compared to having it controlled by the Nord's EXT function, but it might be "good enough." There might be a way to integrate the Nord's EXT function as well (for program selection and such), by merging the NS3's MIDI Out and the External keyboard's MIDI Out into the module's MIDI In... that could work if panel A's EXT function sends its MIDI settings out when a Program is activated even if the EXT function itself is not activated to *play* on that Program, which I *think* is the case. If you did all this, the Nord's EXT commands could find themselves routed back into the Nord's MIDI In, but as long as you choose all your channels carefully, this shouldn't be a problem...

[baekgaard]

First, I'm not sure if the transpose function (which I admittedly don't use much) is working fully as intended here; I only played around shortly with it and would need a little more time to debug it. But possibly, it's like this: The transpose can be applied either on the IN or the OUT side of the keyboard (MIDI setttings 4/4), and it looks as if in Global mode, you can select IN or OUT mode, Dual KB only works in IN mode and maybe Dual KB is then always in OUT mode... I'll check up on this later, but maybe some of the modes do not obey the IN or OUT mode selection.

As for the alternative way you propose, is your idea to use the Dual KB mode in such a way that you could also select the Extern section and not just one Organ, Piano or Synth -- and then be able to use the transpose function in the NS3, so it would act as a MIDI processor for you? Otherwise, connecting the external keyboard via the external module might be a better way to go, as @anotherscott proposes.

[KeesKooijman]

there is no way to trigger the external module from an external keyboard via the NS3 {in dualKB mode}. It only allows to select a single B engine so it is impossible to control the external section from the external keyboard.

This leaves me clueless. Anybody having ideas?

You could connect the external module directly to the external keyboard. If your external module as a MIDI Thru function, you would wire from he keyboard's MIDI OUT to the module's MIDI IN, and then form the module's MIDI THRU to the NS3's MIDI IN. If the module does not have a Thru function, you'd need a MIDI Thru box to be able to go from the external keyboard to both destinations. It's not ideal, there are some limitations compared to having it controlled by the Nord's EXT function, but it might be "good enough." There might be a way to integrate the Nord's EXT function as well (for program selection and such), by merging the NS3's MIDI Out and the External keyboard's MIDI Out into the module's MIDI In... that could work if panel A's EXT function sends its MIDI settings out when a Program is activated even if the EXT function itself is not activated to *play* on that Program, which I *think* is the case. If you did all this, the Nord's EXT commands could find themselves routed back into the Nord's MIDI In, but as long as you choose all your channels carefully, this shouldn't be a problem...

Thanks for thinking with me. This might be a workable solution but would require an additional merge box. Moreover the setup would not be that transparent as I was used with the NS2, and -agreed- certainly not ideal. I doubt if I have the same control over the entire setup and am afraid for a midi loop. The external module should listen to program changes and note on/off on different midi channels, right?
I did a short test and can acknowledge that the NS3 "sends its MIDI settings out when a Program is activated even if the EXT function itself is not activated to *play* on that Program".
At this point I cannot test your complete proposal because I have no merge box at hand and I am not sure if I want to go this route considering the ease I had with the NS2.

[KeesKooijman]

First, I'm not sure if the transpose function (which I admittedly don't use much) is working fully as intended here; I only played around shortly with it and would need a little more time to debug it. But possibly, it's like this: The transpose can be applied either on the IN or the OUT side of the keyboard (MIDI setttings 4/4), and it looks as if in Global mode, you can select IN or OUT mode, Dual KB only works in IN mode and maybe Dual KB is then always in OUT mode... I'll check up on this later, but maybe some of the modes do not obey the IN or OUT mode selection.

As for the alternative way you propose, is your idea to use the Dual KB mode in such a way that you could also select the Extern section and not just one Organ, Piano or Synth -- and then be able to use the transpose function in the NS3, so it would act as a MIDI processor for you? Otherwise, connecting the external keyboard via the external module might be a better way to go, as @anotherscott proposes.

Maybe I was not entirely clear, I'll try again:
Situation 1) Controlling the NS3 in DualKB mode. The transpose function works on both keyboards. This is what I expect. I cannot verify the transpose on the external section played from the external keyboard because that is simply not possible.
Situation 2) Controlling the NS3 in Panel B mode with an external keyboard. The transpose function only works on the internal NS3 keyboard. No matter what I select on the Midi 4/4 page. The output to the external module is only be transposed when I play on the internal keyboard. The external keyboard remains unaltered. Also the external module is not transposed playing from the external keyboard. I cannot believe this is intended functionality: getting a different note from the internal keyboard compared with the external one. This was also not the case with the NS2; if transpose is used all NS2 engines A & B including the extern sections are transposed. This sounds perfectly logical to me.

[MrTobbe]

Controlling the NS3 in Panel B mode with an external keyboard. The transpose function only works on the internal NS3 keyboard. No matter what I select on the Midi 4/4 page.

I cannot believe this is intended functionality: getting a different note from the internal keyboard compared with the external one. This was also not the case with the NS2; if transpose is used all NS2 engines A & B including the extern sections are transposed. This sounds perfectly logical to me.

Good catch! I did a quick test here with my Stage 3 and came to the following conclusion:
The transpose midi at in/out only affects incoming MIDI on the Global channel, not A/B or Dual KB. Dual KB is always transposed with the internal keyboard, while the Panel A/B MIDI input is never transposed along the internal kb, regardless how the "transpose MIDI at" parameter is set.
I agree, I don't think this is the way it is meant to work - the user manual says nothing about that this only would apply to the Global ch.

[baekgaard]

The transpose midi at in/out only affects incoming MIDI on the Global channel, not A/B or Dual KB. Dual KB is always transposed with the internal keyboard, while the Panel A/B MIDI input is never transposed along the internal kb, regardless how the "transpose MIDI at" parameter is set.
I agree, I don't think this is the way it is meant to work - the user manual says nothing about that this only would apply to the Global ch.

Maybe I misread the first line quoted above (it seemingly says transpose does not affect Dual KB), but I agree to the rest of what you say: The global transpose setting impacts what is received via the global channel (when MIDI transpose is set to In) or what is transmitted (when MIDI transpose is set to Out). In Panel A or B mode, the transpose setting has no impact on the reception of MIDI even if MIDI transpose is set to In. In Dual KB mode, the transpose setting impacts what the NS3 plays when it receives MIDI from an external keyboard -- which I think is also what @KeesKooijman found.

Thus, it looks like this:

	Global	Panel	Dual KB
MIDI In	Tranpose	No Transpose	Transpose
MIDI Out	Tranpose	No Transpose	Not Available

I just re-did the test (after my quick test reported earlier) -- just to be sure

Thus, if you set Panel A MIDI out to channel 1 and also enable the global output on channel 1, and press transpose, a single key on the NS3 can play an interval on an external sound module...

To @KeesKooijman: When you play the external module from your external keyboard, are you just enabling the Extern setting in Panel B and setting the global soft through option (extern 9/9) to on?

[arecio]

Hi everyone!
I'm a Nord artist, and I totally agree with your complaints. I'll email my Nord distributor right away. This new "feature" makes the dual Kb useless.