General Discussion of the Nord Stage and Nord Stage EX Synths, FAQ, Troubleshooting etc.

Re: Nord Stage 2 organ section upgrade

Postby Klangwerk » 23 May 2012, 17:52

I agree with anotherscott.
Why should it not possible to upgrade it by software?

......The new C2 OS v2.00 update will give your Nord C2 the same B3 organ engine and rotary emulation as the new Nord C2D. This includes the improved B3 Key Click (with an added Key Bounce menu setting, and an extra high Key Click level available in the Sound menu), improved B3 Percussion behavior, improved B3 bass response and the new 122 Rotary model from the C2D (in both close and normal mic-positioning).

Important Note: In order to fit the new features we had to take away the old "Rotary B" model, the “original Clavia rotary”. If this is your preferred Rotary model this update might not be for you. The old “b” setting has been replaced by the "122 Close" Rotary model.



The NS2 has the C2 Organ. Or is it a marketing-gag? Why can´t we use our NS1 organsounds for the NS2?, bacause of different hardware, motherboard and so on .... Therefore should it be able to upgrade it. :crazy: :crazy:


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Re: Nord Stage 2 organ section upgrade


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Re: Nord Stage 2 organ section upgrade

Postby DanielD71 » 23 May 2012, 19:15

I understand that we won't have the update (by Nord statement). I do not understand that we cannot have the update of a 3mb file.
I thought that the 3 sections were like three engine. And we could update one and not touching the others.

Regards,
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Re: Nord Stage 2 organ section upgrade

Postby jazzystu » 23 May 2012, 19:18

Don't worry, the Stage 2 EX will be out soon. Probably with the organ upgrade, but perhaps not more pitch bend, you might have to wait for the Stage 3 for that.
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Re: Nord Stage 2 organ section upgrade

Postby anotherscott » 23 May 2012, 19:27

Klangwerk wrote:I agree with anotherscott.
Why should it not possible to upgrade it by software?

Actually, it sounds like we don't agree.

Klangwerk wrote:Important Note: In order to fit the new features we had to take away the old "Rotary B" model, the “original Clavia rotary”. If this is your preferred Rotary model this update might not be for you. The old “b” setting has been replaced by the "122 Close" Rotary model.[/i]

The NS2 has the C2 Organ. Or is it a marketing-gag


The NS2 does NOT include the full functionality and electronics of the C2. It does use the same tonewheel modeling. Or as they put it, "The Stage 2's organ section uses our third generation B3 model as found in the acclaimed Nord C2." There's plenty of electronics and code in the C2 that is not included in the NS2. You even point to that in what you quoted above. In order to make the new features fit in the C2D, they had to remove one of the C2's two existing Leslie models. Note that the NS2 only has one Leslie model emulation to begin with! (The one in the NS2 is derived from the new one that had been added to the C2, which remains in the C2 after its new upgrade.)

Nord has explained the situation, perfectly logically. People can choose to believe it, or they can make up reasons for why Nord "must" be lying. It doesn't matter... the upgrade isn't on its way regardless. This thread reminds me of a kid whose dad explains that he can't have something, and no matter what, the kid comes back and whines, "but why??"
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Re: Nord Stage 2 organ section upgrade

Postby anotherscott » 23 May 2012, 19:32

DanielD71 wrote:I understand that we won't have the update (by Nord statement). I do not understand that we cannot have the update of a 3mb file.

What 3 mb file are you talking about?

DanielD71 wrote:I thought that the 3 sections were like three engine. And we could update one and not touching the others.

I"m not sure where you're going with that, but there are 3 aspects of the NS2 that can be upgraded: new pianos for the piano library, new samples for the sample library, and OS upgrades which are "everything else." Within that "everything else," some things are engineered to be changeable, some things are not, and some are to the extent that there is enough free memory available.
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Re: Nord Stage 2 organ section upgrade

Postby DanielD71 » 23 May 2012, 20:19

The upgrade file unzipped is 3mb. When I upgrade my Fantom X6 (couple of years ago) and my korg m3, the update files were much bigger.

I decided to sell my xk3c and my vent and I will buy a C2. I'm playing the organ on my NS2 90% of the time.

Regards,



Regards,
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Re: Nord Stage 2 organ section upgrade

Postby anotherscott » 23 May 2012, 21:35

DanielD71 wrote:The upgrade file unzipped is 3mb.

Interesting... the Mac version of the updater is a 4.9 mb compressed disk image, which when uncompressed and mounted, creates a 13.3 mb update file! Of course, that includes the code for the installer program itself. At any rate, even a 3 mb upgrade can be too big if you only have 1 mb of space left...

DanielD71 wrote: When I upgrade my Fantom X6 (couple of years ago) and my korg m3, the update files were much bigger.

Not that absolute numbers matter (as I said, anything is too big if it's more than what's available), but the M3 OS upgrades may not be as big as you think. The current M3 OS upgrade file is about 4.1 mb. The big 2.0 M3-to-M3EXP upgrade was huge, but it also included all the new sample data that you could load into sample RAM... it would be like Nord including their sample library when you downloaded their OS upgrade! I think the new sample data accounted for something like 90% of the size of that big M3 upgrade. I would guess that a big Fantom upgrade would have similarly included new sample data for their sample RAM.
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Re: Nord Stage 2 organ section upgrade

Postby DanielD71 » 23 May 2012, 22:36

Yes I understand you anotherscott, but for me it's seems that Nord did not make room enough for this. For me, a 3Mb file is more instruction code (new functions, new parameters that will affect the hardware in a different way). I do not think it is a new organ engine and etc.

In Nord's message, they told us that the C2 could be upgrade because the C2 and C2D are dedicated organs. So If we wants the new organ emulation and have the "possibility" to have further updates, it is better to buy a C2/C2D. The Electro4D, I think, will not be able to have these updates, just like the NS2 wasn't able to have the C2 update.

...The Fantom X upgrade was the new audio expansion kit. that was installed in the new Fantom X.

Regards,
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Re: Nord Stage 2 organ section upgrade

Postby Tschanze » 23 May 2012, 22:46

Possibly a new chip set. A set piggybacked onto the motherboard at the rom location of the c2 engine? I remember my old DX-7 had a piggy back on the board I installed to give it control capabilities and extended sound patches. Perhaps to dream.
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Re: Nord Stage 2 organ section upgrade

Postby anotherscott » 24 May 2012, 00:29

DanielD71 wrote:Yes I understand you anotherscott, but for me it's seems that Nord did not make room enough for this. For me, a 3Mb file is more instruction code

Yes, but 3 mb is 3 mb whether it's instruction code or anything else, and if the space isn't there, it's not there. Nord has been very good about providing various upgrades, but they can't be expected to always be able to predict what they would like to have in a model a year into the future, or there could be other technical limitations, for instance...

DanielD71 wrote:In Nord's message, they told us that the C2 could be upgrade because the C2 and C2D are dedicated organs.

Yes, making the distinction: "The C2 and C2D are dedicated organs...The Stage 2 is a multiinstrument with lots, and lots of other features" -- i.e. there's a lot more stuff taking up code space in the NS2 than in a C2. So it could be something like this: The architecture of both the C2 and NS2 supports some fixed amount of code space (apart from the sample memory in the NS2)... the C2, being just an organ, had plenty of space to spare, but the code space for the NS2 is tightly packed to fit in all those other features.

The point is, none of us are engineers with the Nord schematics, but their explanation is perfectly plausible... and people saying that they don't understand how it can possibly be doesn't mean it's wrong. And it's not like we're going to "prove" they're wrong, and Nord is going to say,"Hey guys, you're right, the space was there all along, so here's the update."

But who knows, even if the whole thing doesn't fit, maybe they will be able to do some upgrade with some piece of it. Regardless, there will always be new stuff coming out, and the NS2 organ is pretty darn good!
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