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Re: Nord Sample Editor NS3 - Please Nord!

Postby LudovicVDP » 20 Nov 2017, 00:39

Gambold,
Let's say we're buying a new expensive car with a lot of options. One of them is electric windows. It's on the product description.
But on the car we get, the windows won't open. Basically, you're telling us: "Stop complaining, we have airco, most of us don't open windows anymore. If you need some fresh air, maybe you should consider buying something else, like a motocycle."

Sorry, maybe you never order a burger in a drive-in fast food or you never take a ticket from a toll station or a parking... But some of us do. Maybe not all the time. But even then... it's on the product description! You should get what you pay for.
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Re: Nord Sample Editor NS3 - Please Nord!


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Re: Nord Sample Editor NS3 - Please Nord!

Postby Gambold » 20 Nov 2017, 02:28

Well....technically the Sample Editor is not a feature of the Stage 3. It's add-on software provided by Clavia to enhance your use of that product. So it's not really like car windows. It's more like free rubber floormats.

Other than the soft promise of their advertising, which as I pointed out isn't very prominent regarding the Sample Editor, I don't see any obligation for Clavia to provide this software. They aren't obligated to keep updating their piano library either - at least that's what I was told in very strong terms by the usual attack dogs here when I suggested otherwise. Indeed, they've pretty much stopped updating certain things...at least it's been years and years since they have.

So yeah, you'll get your sample editor - eventually. But the fact that it's not here right now means Clavia is treating it as the add-on that it actually is.
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Re: Nord Sample Editor NS3 - Please Nord!

Postby Gambold » 20 Nov 2017, 02:32

Here it is, the one mention of Sample Editor on the Stage 3 page of their website. Note the "coming soon." The product description is correct, and they haven't broken any promises to anyone.

>All samples can be tweaked creatively inside the Lead A1 Synth Engine and it is even possible to create and transfer your own samples using the Nord Sample Editor (coming soon). <
Last edited by Gambold on 20 Nov 2017, 02:33, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Nord Sample Editor NS3 - Please Nord!

Postby Gambold » 20 Nov 2017, 02:50

It's interesting what rubs people's fur the wrong way. I took a bit of a pounding here when I suggested that Clavia's unexplained file size bloat for new piano sample releases was to encourage buying newer Nords with bigger memory. Although no-one could agree on a reason WHY the sample sizes for Large, Medium and Small pianos have almost doubled in 6 years (XL have gone unchanged), it was something that I was told I should just accept and not complain about, much less criticize Clavia over.

Of course it means that users of older boards (like me) cannot download the new Large samples of the new pianos - we don't have the room. So yeah, I was feeling a little gipped, kind of like you might be feeling right now. I was told to just deal with it, or that I didn't need Large, etc. Well, I do need Large for MY work as a keyboardist - I think the difference between Large and the smaller samples is obvious in a solo/duo setting. So there's an advertised feature I no longer get - new Large piano samples. Unless of course I buy I new Nord. At least you know you will eventually get your software.
Last edited by Gambold on 20 Nov 2017, 02:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nord Sample Editor NS3 - Please Nord!

Postby harmonizer » 20 Nov 2017, 02:56

Here is the Nord product announcement, posted in April or May (I am not sure whether the date "05-04-2017" I read in the USA has been translated to US date format or not). Here it is:
http://www.nordkeyboards.com/about-us/i ... rd-stage-3

"...it is even possible to create and transfer your own samples using the Nord Sample Editor. "

The statement in the Nord announcement could not be any more clear.

I do not remember when it became public knowledge that there would be a new sample format for the Stage 3, and that a new version of the Nord Sample Editor software would need to be released to support this new sample format. But whenever it was, there were many who ordered their Stage 3 product before the new sample format was public information. They ordered the knowing that the Nord Sample Editor already existed, having no reason to even wonder if the already-available Nord Sample Editor would work with the Stage 3.
Last edited by harmonizer on 20 Nov 2017, 02:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nord Sample Editor NS3 - Please Nord!

Postby anotherscott » 20 Nov 2017, 03:25

Gambold wrote:So it's not really like car windows. It's more like free rubber floormats.

The Sample Editor is required for using your own samples, a well-known and widely promoted feature of many Nords (including Stage 2/2EX), and allows you to do things you simply can't do without it. It's not like floormats, which don't alter functionality. Whether it's "physically attached" or not is besides the point, it is part of what you paid for.

Gambold wrote:Here it is, the one mention of Sample Editor on the Stage 3 page of their website. Note the "coming soon." The product description is correct, and they haven't broken any promises to anyone.

They did not add "coming soon" until it was late. You can see the page as it was before via https://web.archive.org/web/20170606195 ... rd-stage-3

Gambold wrote:I took a bit of a pounding here when I suggested that Clavia's unexplained file size bloat for new piano sample releases was to encourage buying newer Nords with bigger memory...it was something that I was told I should just accept and not complain about, much less criticize Clavia over. ...So there's an advertised feature I no longer get - new Large piano samples.

No. They never promised you an unending future supply of new piano samples that would fit in a given amount of memory. Everything they advertised when you bought the keyboard, you got. And then some, as there are new pianos that DO fit, as well. But imagine if you had gotten that board home, expecting to be able to load in new sounds from their web site the day you brought it home, and there was a message that said that you would not be able to load any new samples into your keyboard until some unspecified future date. (Which also happened with the NS3, but was addressed more quickly.) Do you NEED the new samples? Maybe, maybe not. But if you had complained, I doubt you would have been appeased by a reply that said, "hey, you don't really need those sounds anyway, relax, you'll get them eventually, and if you really needed them, you should have bought something else."

I'm not among those who feel Nord needs to be raked over the coals for this, but it's certainly not a non-issue, either. Clearly, it's a screw-up, and I'm sure they're doing everything they can to make it available as quickly as they can.
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Re: Nord Sample Editor NS3 - Please Nord!

Postby Gambold » 20 Nov 2017, 03:58

AT the very least, the length of this thread will hopefully cause them to take some notice :)

It appears that the salient point to take from all of this is that Clavia's new releases need to be carefully vetted before purchasing. Since Nords aren't on a lot of showroom floors, that's tough to do, I know. BUT - if you order locally from one of the big houses, you get the 30-day return guarantee, so for the price of shipping you can do the vetting.

As for those US customers who ordered from Germany, and for whom a return now would cost hundreds in overseas shipping...well, I warned ya.

We can argue about the "promise of unending future supply of new piano samples" in another thread!
Last edited by Gambold on 20 Nov 2017, 04:00, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Nord Sample Editor NS3 - Please Nord!

Postby RichardG » 20 Nov 2017, 10:19

Maybe it's an idea for some of the ppl who are in dire need of the Sample Editor to offer Nord to be a beta tester ?
With the promise not to make it available to the world at large (just as with updates to the OS).

That way it would help those ppl to convert their own samples AND provide Nord some feedback wrt bugs.

Nord itself appears to use it if the updated sample libraries are any indication.
Maybe it's not user friendly enough or has some kinks to be worked out.

Reading this thread gives a negative vibe although I do understand/appreciate comments from either side.

Let's stay positive and try to help Nord instead of bashing them.
We're supposed to all be on the same side...

Just my 0.02
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Re: Nord Sample Editor NS3 - Please Nord!

Postby MrTobbe » 20 Nov 2017, 12:12

This has turned in to a really pointless discussion, IMHO... Why can't we just accept that people is using their Stage 3's in different ways, for different purposes...? Come on it's not a one trick pony, so for some people the synth section with it's sample player is a lot more important, than for those who mainly use the Stage 3 for piano players - and of course people who have spent countless hours over the year recording and editing their own samples, for their Stage 2, now feel more than a bit frustrated that they still can't use them in the Stage. If you can't accept that they feel this well, please just leave the thread and go discuss something else - arguing against this just upsets people and really helps no-one. That's my opinion.

Gambold wrote:So yeah, you'll get your sample editor - eventually. But the fact that it's not here right now means Clavia is treating it as the add-on that it actually is.

Well, this is your interpretation, but that doesn't make it a fact - I think a more probable cause is that Clavia didn't expect to have so much trouble resorting all the bugs in the Stage 3 OS, and I would guess more or less the same programmers are working on both the OS and the Sample Editor, so with all the bugs they have had to resolve in the OS, the team at Clavia had to make a decision to not make the Sample Editor the highest priority right now, but that really doesn't mean it's an just an add-on or "free rubber floormats" as you describe it, it's a tool for making music that integrates with the rest of the Stage 3.
Eventually we will have more or less a bug-free Stage 3, a Sample Editor. hopefully an improved organ engine, and more - but it will take time, and we will probably not know what comes first, or why. It's all speculation at this point.

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Re: Nord Sample Editor NS3 - Please Nord!

Postby Ecaroh » 20 Nov 2017, 14:53

+1

Exactly. I think people have made their point clear - some of us (myself included) need this editor more than the others and they have right to be little frustrated - and now we can go further.
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