Nord User Forum

[anotherscott]

In the end, though, whether Nord explains the source of the delay or not, it will make no difference in terms of when you'll actually have it. So does it really matter?

[analogika]

Nothing to sue, just some detailed explanations that everyone could understand instead of being in the dark.
When you had to cancel your tour in Spain with your Santana Tribute band, you posted why and gave explanation and yes, you apologize...
Something like, this our plan, with step 1, step 2 etc, why step 1 and 2 are difficult because we want to make sure etc....
The "we are not quite done and it will come soon" is not good because it let other people to think about unexpected ....It's way better to know the worst than to imagine the worst...Ok, fine for you if this statement is enough for you, I still believe that, like a lot of us, Clavia could have made a better communication on what is happening....
If they really describe what difficulties they are struggling with, even the cancer guy example, we will pardon them way more than just the "it's coming soon...." So, I will stop here for that topic anyway.

Ah, but that really is none of our business, is it? Nor does it make any difference to the product or software release dates.

We can be reasonably sure that the delay is not out of spite or because they‘d really rather spend their time on social media. They can’t be entirely incompetent, either, judging from existing products and software. We do know that their resources are spread thin. So we have to assume that they have good reasons. That’s annoying, but in the end, all we’ve got.

P.S.: FWIW, I no longer play with the Santana tribute show (I left in March of 2016). And the cancellation notice they posted was literally “due to unforeseen circumstances” and an apology - no reason given. Professional, clean, and none of your business. (I do know some more of the background, of course.)

[Quai34]

Ok Analogika, I get it, no need to continue on this one with what reasons could be our business or no...
It's just that some of us consider that it's our business because we care a lot about the brand....So, you identify with the brand and you are very proud that a small CIE could compete with the big ones because they have done so well in the past...They connect with their customers and on this one, the connection is not very good....If it was, there would not have all that complaints on this forum....
Cgraf maybe explained it better than me when he said that a lack of information or stock could kill a CIE and it's just because we care, because we are connected with Nord that this lack of information or if you prefer the same communication that has been the same for years is not what we used to from Nord....
I was just saying that, and it was my first post, the excuse that they are a little company of 27 doesn't hold because even small Cies could and have had a better communication....And the matter is that there will be less buzzing about it and people will even forgive them for the delay is they say something with detailed explanations instead of just the usual phrase, that's it...and yes, you were asking me what I was expecting, your former band gave an apology....That's why I took your former band as an example....It's just became my business as soon as I wanted to know more about who you are, what you do and then I went online visiting your website....You give us details about what you do, we are not in the dark, there is a lot of details on your profile....Just the statement you think is enough seems to have the opposite effect on a lot of people, we feel that we are kept in the dark....
I'm sure an apology and detailed explanation would have avoid all the buzz and maybe a guy who would have kept his Stage 3 instead of returning it...
But that is out of topic, you explained your point, I explained mine, fine....I don't know what you have against people who are just saying that they could have done a better job in giving us more details so, there is less frustration....
And if you like Nord like I do, like I'm sure you do, you could think that it's a pity to damage that image if they could have, maybe, it was just a proposal ok, nothing personal against anyone, done differently....I took your former band as an example because you were asking me what they could have done, even a band of 10 people apologize....Wasn't that a good idea? So, sorry if I upset you, it was not intended, it was more for the better than for the worst....
Anyway, for me the discussion is closed....Thanks all for your inputs on this one, I hope no one was offended or kind of and on a more positive attitude, I hope we will all enjoy very soon the Nord sample editor...

[analogika]

Apologies if I seem harsh or aggressive.

I’m just a little tired of people feeling entitled to this or that treatment. I do love the Nord stuff, and I’m sure they'll come through eventually, and I’m sure that, no matter what they communicate, somebody would be unhappy.

But harassing them over it isn’t going to make release happen any sooner. There's a reason why the support form is now sent to the local distributor, instead of to clavia directly.

[anotherscott]

I understand the feeling of kind of "bonding" with a manufacturer, and indeed strong communication with the customer base supports that, and tends to make consumers feel better about the company and its gear, and in that respect, I agree that it would be smart for Nord to do a better job, not because we are owed an explanation (we're not), not because it will help fix the problems more quickly (it won't), but simply because it's a way of building more good will and product loyalty, something that's particularly useful when you have a small, "boutique" style company. Especially in these days of social media, I think it's kind of stupid from a marketing perspective that Nord largely ignores this free sales/loyalty boosting mechanism. But for those of who already know we want an NS3 regardless, it doesn't really matter.

On the other hand, I have to give Nord big points for supporting their gear with upgrades in the first place, and for being so open about what they do. More than any other company, Nord actually continues to provide operational enhancements to the boards you've already bought. And when they fix bugs, they usually tell you exactly what they fixed, which can be helpful information. Other companies often provide much less detail, assuming they even fix the bugs at all.

Lastly, there have been comments that have linked their behavior to the price of the boards. I think that's a non-issue. It doesn't matter whether you paid $3,000 or $300 for something. Companies are smart to be communicative regardless, but don't owe it to you, regardless.

[cgrafx]

Lastly, there have been comments that have linked their behavior to the price of the boards. I think that's a non-issue. It doesn't matter whether you paid $3,000 or $300 for something. Companies are smart to be communicative regardless, but don't owe it to you, regardless.

I'm sorry but the price of the board absolutely has something to do with it. $300 is not $3500. And yes product manufactures do owe their customers a certain level of respect, which when things are not going as planned means communicating about what is going on. (without us (the customer) Nord doesn't exist).

Clearly there is no legal obligation to do so, but there is a moral one and its simply good business practice to do so.

I'm not asking for an apology, what I want is clear information about status of product so that I can make an informed decision about if I'm willing to wait or need to move on.

In my case lack of information has left me with no choice but to cancel my order and get my $$$ back. At the current time if the NS3 worked as advertised it would be the best solution for my needs (but it doesn't currently work as advertised).

I will continue to follow NS3 progress and see if enough of the problems get resolved to repurchase, but if a suitable alternative becomes available I'm not going to pin my hopes on what "might be" particularly since Nord has seen fit not to publicly address any of these issues.

There are new products being released all the time and I will only wait so long.

[analogika]

Clear information on status is „we‘re working on it and expect to be done soon.“

Nice to see you happy, now that we‘ve cleared that up.

[anotherscott]

I'm sorry but the price of the board absolutely has something to do with it. $300 is not $3500.

And what does a car manufacturer owe you for buying their $30,000 car? Really, nothing except warranty service. And do you think you're going to be kept apprised about what Apple is doing behind the scenes to fix their bugs, just because you spend $1,000+ on the newest iPhone? Don't hold your breath.

what I want is clear information about status of product so that I can make an informed decision about if I'm willing to wait or need to move on.

In my case lack of information has left me with no choice but to cancel my order and get my $$$ back.

Lack of information makes no difference! As has been mentioned, they could tell you the cause of the delay, but that changes nothing in terms of the options available to you. They could tell you they expect to have the software available before the end of the year, but there's no guarantee they won't miss that deadline as they have missed others (and then you'd be even more upset, especially if that's what stopped you from buying something else in the mean time). No matter what they say, your choices remains what they are.

At the current time if the NS3 worked as advertised it would be the best solution for my needs (but it doesn't currently work as advertised).

I will continue to follow NS3 progress and see if enough of the problems get resolved to repurchase, but if a suitable alternative becomes available I'm not going to pin my hopes on what "might be"

That sounds like a good approach, and one that shouldn't be different regardless of the fact that, as you said, "Nord has seen fit not to publicly address any of these issues." I agree, they should be more communicative... if nothing else, it's smart PR. But it doesn't really alter your choices.

[cgrafx]

I'm sorry but the price of the board absolutely has something to do with it. $300 is not $3500.

And what does a car manufacturer owe you for buying their $30,000 car? Really, nothing except warranty service. And do you think you're going to be kept apprised about what Apple is doing behind the scenes to fix their bugs, just because you spend $1,000+ on the newest iPhone? Don't hold your breath.

The car manufacturer owes you through implied contract a product that matches the advertised specs and if they cannot deliver that then they are legally obligated to fix, replace or refund my money.

If apple ships a product with significant non-working features there would be holy hell to pay.

The lack of the sample editor significantly cripples the usefulness of the NS3. The B3 implementation is less than stellar and should be fixed but doesn't rise to the same level of concern.

The fact that some people are experiencing latency problems is also a concern as it may (repeat "may") be an indication that there is insufficient processing power to handle the level of polyphony that was advertised.

The removal of the Dual KB functionality without any explanation is also of great concern.

Selling any product comes with a specific implied contract that the product will be fit for the purpose that it was advertised for. Not 80% of that purpose.

Your claiming that its ok for Nord to say nothing and to take as long as they wish to address these issues. I'm saying when they made these units available for sale, they had a legal obligation to meet certain level of expectation and short of that obligates Nord to explain why they are not doing so and what remedy is being made available to fix the problem.

How long a delay in shipping the sample editor for example would be long enough for you to consider it a major breach of contract and the NS3 not fit for purpose. 1 month, 2 months, 6 months, 1 year, Never ship.

How many people would consider the NS3 complete without the sample editor? My guess is not many.

Six months from now if the sample editor has not been released, how many people are going to want to keep their NS3 and is Nord going to absorb the cost of returning all of those units?

There are clearly different ways of running a company. One paints the customer as an adversary to be avoided at all cost except when collecting their money. The other treats their customers as valued members of the ecosystem, relying on them to help shape the coarse of their products in order to better serve the community. The second business model requires open conversations throughout the coarse of development.

I'm going to leave this discussion at this point since Nord, which clearly is aware of what transpires in these forums, has chosen not to engage in the conversation.

If things have not progressed as hoped before NAMM (Jan 25 2018), then I'll have to see if having a direct conversation with them at the show will make any difference.

Personally I'm not holding my breath, as the last interaction I had when them at NAMM was less than productive and they pretty much blew me off.

[analogika]

I'm sorry but the price of the board absolutely has something to do with it. $300 is not $3500.

And what does a car manufacturer owe you for buying their $30,000 car? Really, nothing except warranty service. And do you think you're going to be kept apprised about what Apple is doing behind the scenes to fix their bugs, just because you spend $1,000+ on the newest iPhone? Don't hold your breath.

The car manufacturer owes you through implied contract a product that matches the advertised specs and if they cannot deliver that then they are legally obligated to fix, replace or refund my money.

If apple ships a product with significant non-working features there would be holy hell to pay.

I agree, and this is where I think you have a case:

http://www.nordkeyboards.com/products/nord-stage-3
current state (emphasis mine):

Sample Playback
The Nord Stage 3 Synth section has powerful sample playback capabilities and comes with an outstanding selection of samples from our new Nord Sample Library 3.0. All samples can be tweaked creatively inside the Lead A1 Synth Engine and it is even possible to create and transfer your own samples using the Nord Sample Editor (coming soon).

The Waybackmachine at archive.org shows that "coming soon" had not been added as of their last crawl on June 6th.

But I do believe that the only possible remedy for this situation is actually releasing a final, working version of the Sample Editor, not any sort of public apology or grovelling.