Issue with Nord stage I, MOTU Midi interface and cubase

[Quai34]

Hi, I just bought cubase artist one week ago.
Version 6.5 to be able to,run it on my IMac 2006 with 2 giga only.
I installed the midi MOTU interface drivers and set all the virtual connection in the midi and audio utility on the IMac by drag and drop the cables from the MOTU to,the stage II AND the others synths...d50, matrix, proteus, effects etc....
Installed the M audio profire interface and updated the drivers.
Installed and launched cubase, set up,the VST connections, both the audio and Midi were available in the list, enabled and ready....
Imcerated a track on cubase, a midi one, the local,if off on the stage, midi thru in on in the preferences in cubase, the track is ready to record and the monitor button in on....
Midi channel one stage II out was chosen in the Dropbox menu in cubase, channel one, as well as in the output, both TRHU the MOTU.
I played few notes, they went TRHU the interface, and I was abble to,see them....monitoring is done thru the mackie so I,was hearing what I was playing...
But here IS MY ISSUE.....when I tried to play back the track, Imwas able to hear the Stage II only in changing the output from midi channel one via the MOTU to midi channel,one via the USB cable, meaning that the midi went well thrum the MOTU from the stage to cubase but not from cubase to the stage unless I use the USB port of the stage
Could you help?
Sincerely

[mjbrands]

I'm having some problems deciphering your message; that's a lot of information.

So you have the MOTU interface (MIDI Express 128 or something like that?) with all your MIDI synths connected to it, so you can send MIDI from Cubase via the MOTU to the synths. You also have the Stage 2 connected to a MIDI IN port on the MOTU and you've turned Local Control 'off' on the NS2, so you're essentially using the keyboard to play whatever channel you have selected in Cubase.

You then record some stuff (MIDI) and when you play it back, the synths make noise but the NS2 doesn't - you need to change the channel for the NS2 in Cubase to USB 1 for the NS2 to make sound?

The NS2 always transmits via the Global MIDI channel. If you've got that set to MIDI 1, the signal would be coming in via the MOTU. As far as I can tell, that's how you have it set up. Also, while you're recording you do hear sound from the NS2, but not when you play the track back.

Is this correct so far?

If the Global MIDI channel is sending on MIDI 1, I have a hard time understanding why you'd need to set Cubase to send on USB 1 for the NS2 to make a sound on playback. In fact, if it is set to MIDI 1 in the MIDI settings on the NS2, it shouldn't even respond to USB 1.

Additionally, I don't understand why the NS2 would make a sound while recording but not on playback. If you've got Local Control turned off, the only way the NS2 could make a sound while recording is when Cubase sends it MIDI - if that's the case, why doesn't it happen on playback?

I'm like misunderstanding you, since these last two things don't seem to make sense to me.

[Quai34]

Hi and thanks a lot for trying to help me.

''so you have the motu interface (midi express 128 or something like that?) With all your midi synths connected to it, so you can send midi from Cubase via the motu to the synths.

yes

you also have the stage 2 connected to a midi in port on the motu and you've turned local control 'off' on the ns2, so you're essentially using the keyboard to play whatever channel you have selected in Cubase.

yes and when I set up the stage ii local off, I cannot hear a sound but I see the meters coming into Cubase...

You then record some stuff (midi) and when you play it back, the synths make noise but the ns2 doesn't

I tried it today, both the stage and the d50 and the Nord Lead 2x doesn't make sound but I can see that the little green light on each port on the motu 128 is clicking depending on the channel I chose as an output for the track, port 1 for the stage, port 2 for the d50 and port 3 for the Nord Lead 2x - and the midi light on the stage, right end side of the stage is not blicking....

You need to change the channel for the ns2 in Cubase to usb 1 for the ns2 to make sound?

Yes, in my audio and midi utility in the imac application folder, I created all the connections, it seems to have worked as I can have all my midi input and output in the drop down menu in Cubase.but an other stage ii icon was created autimatically as I have the stage ii connected to the imac with usb...(did it to update the software...)
So, in my list of available outputs for the stage ii, I have the one I created via the motu and the one automatically created via usb
if I choose the usb one as an output in Cubase and change the global midi channel in the stage to usb 1, it works, I hear what Cubase is playing...

The ns2 always transmits via the global midi channel. If you've got that set to midi 1, the signal would be coming in via the motu. As far as I can tell, that's how you have it set up.

Yes, but today I disconnected the usb and no midi note was sent to Cubase...meaning that it was the usb connection that was sending the midi note in Cubase....it works with the usb depending on either the usb input or the motu input were selected....to be clear, if I choose the stage ii usb as an input in Cubase, Cubase receives the note, if I choose the motu as an input in Cubase, it works....but if I disconnect the usb cable behind the stage, it doesn't work

I tried to enter midi notes from the d50, works thru motu port 2, I an see the lights on the motu blinking, same with the Nord Lead 2x....

Also, while you're recording you do hear sound from the ns2, but not when you play the track back.

Because I have a Mackie and I hear the sound coming from the Mackie directly, I’m not using the interface router, my configuration is a monitoring and mixing out of the box

is this correct so far?

If the global midi channel is sending on midi 1, I have a hard time understanding why you'd need to set Cubase to send on usb 1 for the ns2 to make a sound on playback. In fact, if it is set to midi 1 in the midi settings on the ns2, it shouldn't even respond to usb 1.

If I set up the stage ii to midi 1, Cubase output to midi 1, you are right, when I paly bak the seuqnce, the stage ii doesn't make sound, and receives no midi note....but he receives program changes as the patch and bank were changing very fast according to Cubase....so I disabled the global midi program change on the stage, no more patch changes but no sound...
When I set up the output in Cubase to the d50 or the nordlead and when I play back the sequence, same thing, both the d50 and the nord2x start to swith patches but no sound....it seems that the notes coming out of Cubase are changed into program changes....

Additionally, I don't understand why the ns2 would make a sound while recording but not on playback. If you've got local control turned off, the only way the ns2 could make a sound while recording is when Cubase sends it midi - if that's the case, why doesn't it happen on playback?

Same answer, you are right, if I unplug the usb cable on the back of the stage ii, Cubase receive nothing and to listen to the sound I need to have the local on....

So, I’m driving crazy with this....

I’m like misunderstanding you, since these last two things don't seem to make sense to me.

[mjbrands]

You also have the Stage 2 connected to a MIDI IN port on the MOTU and you've turned Local Control 'off' on the NS2, so you're essentially using the keyboard to play whatever channel you have selected in Cubase.

Yes and when I set up the stage I local off, I cannot hear a sound but I see the meters coming into cubase...

Let me first say I don't know Cubase at all. I do use Ableton Live and Logic however, so I have an idea of how DAWs work.

I think that in this case the meters in Cubase aren't showing you audio volume levels, but the 'strength' (velocity) of the MIDI data received. That's what Ableton Live would show. Of course, if you mean you see this on an 'audio' track instead of a 'MIDI' track, then I also don't know what the meters are showing.

I assume that when you say that you don't hear anything, you have your NS2 connected to your Mackie and don't hear a thing? Or is the audio from the NS2 going into an audio interface (the M-Audio maybe) where Cubase can see it?

You then record some stuff (MIDI) and when you play it back, the synths make noise but the NS2 doesn't

I tried it today, both the stage and the D50 and the Nord Lead 2X doesn't make sound but I can see that the little green light on each port on the MOTU 128 is clicking depending on the channel I chose as an output for the track, port 1 for the Stage, port 2 for the D50 and port 3 for the Nord Lead 2X - and the MIDI light on the Stage, right end side of the Stage is not blicking....

In the case of the D50 and Nord Lead 2X it sounds to me like Cubase might be sending on a different channel than the D50/Nord Lead 2X are expecting data on.

While I've had a Nord Lead 2X myself for a while, I know the Stage 2 better. When the Stage 2 receives MIDI data (either via MIDI or USB), the MIDI LED (between the display and the round value dial blinks. If the Stage 2 receives MIDI on a channel it is configured to listen to, the LED will stay on fairly long and when it receives MIDI on a channel it is not listening to, it only stays on for a very short time. This is also described on page 17 of the manual in the MIDI Indicator section.

So if you see the MIDI LED only stay on a short time, it means you Cubase is sending on the wrong MIDI channel. The Nord Lead 2X might also do this, I'm haven't checked the manual to verify this.

you need to change the channel for the NS2 in Cubase to USB 1 for the NS2 to make sound?

Yes, in my Audio and MIDI utility in the iMac application folder, i created all the connections, it seems to have worked as I can have all my MIDI input and output in the drop down menu in Cubase.

Drawing these connection isn't very important - it pretty much only lets your iMac know what the devices that are connected to specific MIDI ports are called. This lets you select a MIDI port by device name (like D50) instead of the MIDI port number (like port 2). It is handy because is gives you these more easily understandable names.

More on this further on in this post.

but an other Stage II icon was created autimatically as i have the Stage II connected to the iMac with USB...(did it to update the software...)
so, in my list of available outputs for the Stage II, I have the one I created via the MOTU and the one automatically created via USB
If I choose the USB one as an output in Cubase and change the Global MIDI channel in the Stage to USB 1, it works, I hear what cubase is playing...

It is normal this extra icon appears, because when you plug in your Stage 2 to your iMac, you're actually adding a new MIDI interface; to the iMac it appears as if your Stage 2 is a MIDI interface. Even though it automatically gets added when you plug in the Stage, you don't have to use it though. For example, using your MOTU MIDI interface timing might be a bit better.

If you set up your Stage 2 to only use its normal MIDI ports, it will ignore anything that is sent to it via the USB MIDI interface. You can't turn this additional MIDI interface off, but because you can choose not to use it, that doesn't really matter. In your case you might want to call the synth you've created in the Audio and MIDI utility something other than 'Stage 2' (or whatever that additional USB MIDI interface is called), because you might not be able to see the difference in Cubase. Maybe you should call it something like 'Stage 2 (MIDI)'.

The NS2 always transmits via the Global MIDI channel. If you've got that set to MIDI 1, the signal would be coming in via the MOTU. As far as I can tell, that's how you have it set up.

Yes, but today I disconnected the USB and no MIDI note was sent to Cubase...meaning that it was the USB connection that was sending the MIDI note in Cubase....it works with the USB depending on either the USB input or the MOTU input were selected....to be clear, if I choose the Stage II USB as an input in Cubase, Cubase receives the note, if I choose the MOTU as an input in Cubase, it works....but if I disconnect the USB cable behind the Stage, it doesn't work

Below is what a MIDI track looks like in Ableton Live.



Notice what it says below MIDI From: it is taking MIDI from any MIDI input on any channel. Cubase might be doing something similar: Cubase might be using MIDI it receives from the Stage 2 and right now it is doing this via the USB MIDI interface. This must be because when you tested this, the Global Channel on the Stage 2 was set to USB 1 (might have been another number, but it was certainly using USB).

(I am lying a bit here about Ableton - I said any MIDI input, but it's actually any MIDI input that has been enabled in Ableton's settings dialog.)

There's a way to test if what I said here is what's going on: more on this below.

I tried to enter MIDI notes from the D50, works thru MOTU port 2, I an see the lights on the MOTU blinking, same with the Nord Lead 2X....

You've verified port 2 works and that you've plugged in the cables correctly.

If port 2 works, I think port 1 works too; MIDI ports don't break easily, so to me it seems very unlikely that port 1 on the MOTU would be broken. You could connect the Stage 2 to port 2 (or the D50/NL2X to port 1) to make sure though.

Also, while you're recording you do hear sound from the NS2, but not when you play the track back.

Because i have a Mackie and I hear the sound coming from the Mackie directly, I'm not using the interface router, my configuration is a monitoring and mixing out of the box

That setup is fine. Might cause some issues with latency if you combine hardware synths with soft synths (VST or AU) though. It is fine though if you're only using Cubase as a sequencer for hardware synths, like you are doing now.

If the Global MIDI channel is sending on MIDI 1, I have a hard time understanding why you'd need to set Cubase to send on USB 1 for the NS2 to make a sound on playback. In fact, if it is set to MIDI 1 in the MIDI settings on the NS2, it shouldn't even respond to USB 1.

If I set up the Stage II to MIDI 1, Cubase output to MIDI 1, you are right, when I paly bak the seuqnce, the Stage II doesn't make sound, and receives no MIDI note....but he receives program changes as the patch and bank were changing very fast according to Cubase....so I disabled the Global MIDI Program Change on the Stage, no more patch changes but no sound...when I set up the output in Cubase to the D50 or the Nordlead and when I play back the sequence, same thing, both the D50 and the Nord2x start to swith patches but no sound....it seems that the notes coming out of cubase are changed into program changes....

When I read this the first time, I though the MIDI port on your Stage 2 might be broken. But since it receives program change messages, it cannot be broken.

I think I can explain why this is happening. Have a look at this image:



Note where the arrow is pointing. In Ableton Live every clip in a MIDI track has some properties associated with it. One of these properties is the program number to use. In the case of the image above, every time I start this clip Ableton will tell the synth to switch to program 110 before it starts sending it MIDI note data. It is very likely Cubase has a similar setting.

In Ableton I can turn sending program changes off by setting this to None - you can probably turn it off in Cubase too (check the documentation). I hardly ever turn it off though, since it is a very handy setting: it saves me from selecting the right sound on my synths.

I don't know how the Stage 2 exactly numbers it's program, but I think it works like this:

• Set Program to a value from 0 to 99 to select program 1 to 100 on the Stage 2 (MIDI starts counting at 0, not 1)
• Set Bank to a value from 0 to 3 to select the bank (0 for A, 3 for D)

It might also be that program 100 (remember MIDI started counting at 0) is program B:01:1. The Stage 2 might even use the Bank, Sub-Bank and Program settings (I don't think it does though). It shouldn't be that hard to figure out what setting in Cubase selects the right program in the Stage.

Additionally, I don't understand why the NS2 would make a sound while recording but not on playback. If you've got Local Control turned off, the only way the NS2 could make a sound while recording is when Cubase sends it MIDI - if that's the case, why doesn't it happen on playback?

Same answer, you are right, if I unplug the USB cable on the back of the Stage II, Cubase receive nothing and to listen to the sound I need to have the local on....

I currently don't understand this either. However, right now where dealing with quite a complex situation and a lot of information. The length of my response is already an indicator of this.



Phew, my fingers are itching from all this typing. The guy above is actually a bottle stopper: click here if you don't believe me.

Now I've got your attention again, I would like to ask you to first troubleshoot your MIDI setup without using Cubase. Once you know your MIDI setup is correctly working, you can focus on the Cubase side of things.

To start troubleshooting, please connect everything as you think it should be and also plug in the USB cable of the Nord. I think that if you're using your Nord close enough to your computer that you might as well plug it in.

Now start the Audio MIDI Setup utility.



Start by pressing the Rescan MIDI button. You should see your MOTU interface, but also your Stage 2's MIDI interface. If you double-click an icon, you get a settings dialog. Please change the name of the Stage 2's USB interface to 'Stage 2 (USB)' and change the name of Stage 2 synth connected to the MOTU (similar to the DSI Evolver in my image above) to 'Stage 2 (MIDI)'. That should make it much easier to see what is what.

I've done something similar in my image above. The names aren't really important, as long as they help you to easily see what is what.

Now click the Test Setup button - I've circled it in my image above.

If you now click on the small arrow pointing out of the MIDI interface (shown by the big, red arrow) the utility will send some MIDI notes to the device connected to that MIDI port. Whether you have draw those lines doesn't matter, you can test it. Note the little arrow only turns blue when you press it.

If you do this test, the synth should be making sounds. Give it a try with your D50 and NL2X. Also try setting the Global Channel on the Stage 2 to USB 1 and test the output of the Stage 2 (USB) device. Then try setting Global Channel to MIDI 1 and test via the MOTU.

There is an advantage of setting it up you like did and like I show in the image.



If you added your synths to the utility, you can change the channels it sends on and the channels it receives on. If the image above, I've set it up so the utility knows my Evolver doesn't case on what channel it receives MIDI and it sends only on channel 1. The strange thing is you can only set this up for devices you added manually and connected to an interface.

If you wanted to set this up for the Stage 2 via the USB interface, you'd have to create a new device (Stage 2) and connect that to the Stage 2 (USB) interface. It would the probably make sense to rename the interface to 'Stage 2 (Interface)' and the new Stage 2 icon you added to 'Stage 2 (USB)'. You can then change the channel settings on the icon, just like you could with the other one.

I suggest not changing these settings and leaving all channels enabled (= all blue). Ableton Live doesn't even use these settings, I think - no idea if Cubase will.

If you send MIDI to your iMac, you can also see this in the utility. If you've set the Global Channel to USB 1 and press a key on the Nord, you should see the small arrow pointing into the Stage 2 (USB) interface light up (blue or yellow I think). You should also hear your iMac produce some notes. Try setting the Global Channel to MIDI 1 on the Nord and try again - you should see the data coming via the MOTU now.

If you've also connected the MIDI outs on the D50 and NL2X to your MOTU, you can also test this for those.

You could use the channel settings to test on what channel the Stage 2 is listening; make channel 1 (under Receives) blue and the other ones grey and test. If it doesn't work, make channel 2 blue and the others grey and test again. However, it is far quicker and easier just to look in the MIDI menu on the Stage 2.

I think it would be a good idea if you first make sure it works properly from the Audio MIDI Setup utility. If it works fine there, you know your cabling, etc. is correct. You can then start testing with Cubase (you might still be using the wrong MIDI channel, but that's something you can troubleshoot and fix).

SO, I'M DRIVING CRAZY WITH THIS....

I intentionally left this in upper-case. I can imagine your frustration, but I'm sure we can solve this and get it working properly.

[mjbrands]

By the way: make sure the Dual KB channel (see page 44 of the manual) is not set to any MIDI channel you're using. Set it to some channel you're not using, like MIDI 16. There's no way to turn this feature off, which always surprises me a bit.

If this is set to a channel you are using, such as MIDI 1, it will eat up all incoming MIDI data on that channel and it will appears as if the Stage 2 never received it. Well, if I were to say it would only do something with an organ program it would sound less dramatic. The warning still stands however.

[Quai34]

Hi again,
I should be damned, I spend 2 hours yesterday evening to reply to you, typing on my laptop, doing the stuff you asked on the Imac, taking pictures of the Imac Screen to make sure we will be on the same page and downloading the photos and when I decided to post my reply, it crashed....so, let's do it again tonight....
By the way very funny the bottle stopper...
and yes for your last reply, the stage II is on channel 16 on the dual message channel...
So here is a picture od cubase, yes you are right the infos and control windows looks like a lot to Ableton

CUBASE TRACKS INFOS.JPG (1.68 MiB) Viewed 2707 times

and I didn't know how it happened but the program change was set up to channel 1 instead of ''éteint'' (disabled....) and I can alos disable it in the preferences so, now no more issue with the program changes...

PROGRAM CHANGE.JPG (1.9 MiB) Viewed 2707 times

Also, here are some pictures of my midi and audio utility. I had already realized that I had the second stage II considered as another interface that's why I had already labelled them differently, look at the photo

general vue of the midi and audio utility.JPG (2.61 MiB) Viewed 2707 times

closer one with the SECOND STAGE NAMED USB.JPG (2.65 MiB) Viewed 2707 times

SECOND CLOSER ONE WITH THE STAGE NAMED USB.JPG (3.83 MiB) Viewed 2707 times

So, yesterday I started your test with the Midi and Audio utility and it seemed to work, both from the keyboards, the inputs blue arrow was switching to blue when I was playing a key on any keyboard, the Stage but also the D50 and the 2X, but the ''blub'' sound coming form the computer I think can be hear only when I was releasing the key....
And when i was clicking on the output blue arrows on the MOTU it was working though both the D50 and the 2X kept the sound going like they had a permanent sustain peadal on ? Why ? No sustain pedals are connected to them, only the Stage II has one, the 3 pedals...

And I was tinking that everything went good, I realized that my Stage II was on the midi channel 2, not the one..when I tried to change it, it was never working anymore when I was clicking the blue output arrow on the MOTU on the port one, the port the stage is connected to....no other channels were working, only channel 2....USB work fine on any channel form 1 to 16....

So, I realized that the channel 2 was the channel set up in cubase when I stopped/closed cubase in the wrong way...does it mean that some channel midi 2 memory was kept into the system....I retarted it, Imac, MOTU and Cubase and still same issue...and anytime I was trying to change the midi channel on the stage to midi 2 to anotehr one the MOTU seemed to freeze, no more option to double click on an icon and to see the midi properties....

do you think this could be related to my old 2006, OS 10.6 2 giga of RAM only Imac ?

Just let me know and I will try again tonight waiting for your advises that were very usefull by the way....
I don't have any sexy bottle stopper photo to share, just a photo of the Den/Studio

D2X_6581.JPG (5.48 MiB) Viewed 2707 times

D2H_4188.JPG (1.87 MiB) Viewed 2707 times

D2H_4202.JPG (2.02 MiB) Viewed 2707 times

IMG_0557.JPG (2.81 MiB) Viewed 2707 times

D2X_3365.JPG (127.36 KiB) Viewed 2707 times

D2H_4213.JPG (1.94 MiB) Viewed 2707 times

See you

[Quai34]

Hi,
So some more news from today evening, 21h48 Winnipeg/central time
I tried again the MOTU test and today :
1) the stage II MOTU responds only on Midi channel 2 but the stage II USB responds on all the 16 midi channels, both ways as yesterday ???
2) The D50 works only in output mode, meaning when I click a note on the keyboard, I can see the blue input arrow on the MOTU blinking....BUT NOTHING happens when I try the output mode, clicking on the output blue arrow on the MOTU, no sounds on the D50...it's set up on omni and I tried all the midi channels, no sound but I see the infos comming thru the front face of the MOTU, the green light is blinking....
3) NL 2X works well both ways appart the sustain sound like yesterday...
4) I started cubase, launched an already done default set up, added a midi track, see photo and USB works perfectly, the thru fonction works, I can hear my stage II as the local is off...

stage II USB.JPG (3.21 MiB) Viewed 2703 times

CLOSER LOOK STAGE II USB.JPG (2.55 MiB) Viewed 2703 times

5) In cubase, with the STAGE II MOTU, Midi channel 1 as input and output, no sound but i can see the blue bargraph working when I play and the light on the MOTU front face Midi In port 1 is blinking, no light on the MOTU front face MIDI out port 1...it seems that the sound is not going thru cubase in that case....

STAGE II MOTU OUT MIDI CHANNEL 1 & STAGE II MOTU MIDI IN CHANNEL 1.JPG (2.35 MiB) Viewed 2703 times

6) In cubase, When I set up the D50 as the input in cubase and the stage II USB as output, I can play on the D50 and hear the sound of the stage....so I can have the D50 as the master keyboard playing B3 sound on the stage....works only if I choose the stage II USB....

D50 MIDI OUT CHANNEL 1 & STAGE II USB MIDI IN CHANNEL 1.JPG (3.23 MiB) Viewed 2703 times

7) Work fine with the NL 2X, could use it as the master keyboard as well for the stage II but with the stage II usb
8) but when i want to replay the track I recorded, the only interface that was working is the stage II USB, nothing if I select as an output the D50 or the NL2X

so ???? I still don't understand....

[Quai34]

UPDATE AT 23H24
I WROTE :
2) The D50 works only in output mode, meaning when I click a note on the keyboard, I can see the blue input arrow on the MOTU blinking....BUT NOTHING happens when I try the output mode, clicking on the output blue arrow on the MOTU, no sounds on the D50...it's set up on omni and I tried all the midi channels, no sound but I see the infos comming thru the front face of the MOTU, the green light is blinking....
BUT :
I HAD COMPLETELY FORGOTTEN THAT THE D50 goes thru the PG1000 controller and the PG1000 was off...so no midi notes thru it...and the sustain sound on the D50 was coming from the ADSR pushed at the maximum on the PG1000 (for faders cleaning purpose...)...so, I will disconnect it tomorrow and connect the D50 without the PG1000 to check it again....but I didn't solve the sustain issue on the NL2X, might come from the position of the faders on the PG1000 transfered via the Midi set up ???...when I turn off the PG1000, I still have the sustain issue on the 2x, will try to figure out tomorrow...The PG1000 is new and I could be able to set it up in a sort of bypass mode...in order to leave it connected but with no influence...

IMG_0630.JPG (2.61 MiB) Viewed 2692 times

WHY MY MOTHER PUT ME ON KEYBOARDS !!!! SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE INSPIRED IN PUSHING ME ON GUITAR....no midi....

[mjbrands]

@ all those pictures: wow, did I die and go to heaven?!

Btw. when the drooling stops, I'll have a look at what you actually posted (tonight probably). :-p

[Quai34]

Hi.
Thanks a lot, yes, my wife is not alaways pleased to see taht but it took me almosr two years to build the studio and I'v been dreaming of it since the age of 15...and i'm close to my 50's...
But my last experience with music computer was with an Atari 1040 and Notator...very often, people don't even know that Apple bought Emagic/Clab/Notator (Cubase competitor in the 80's...) in 1995...so, I'm an old guy in that kind of stuff...
Thanks for your help again..I will printed our discussion, one guy at Long and Mac QWuade in Winnipeg (Music store...) came bacj form holiday yesterday, he's supposed to be able to help me also...
See you