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Why Nord?

Postby Sleepngbear » 04 Aug 2014, 21:28

I hope no one takes offense -- I am honestly looking for opinions from experienced players who have used other stage pianos in addition to a Nord.

About me -- I'm a mid-50's keyboardist and vocalist. I've been actively playing for about 45 of those years, gigging on and off with bands and combos. I've currently settled down in a duo with a partner who also sings and plays acoustic guitar and bass. We get a great sound for two guys (no rhythm machines or other artificial backup, just us), and we play out 2-4 times a month -- just how I like it. I've played multiple boards in bands, but for the duo it's just a stage piano (more on that coming up). Of course I'm always looking for ways to improve my own playing as well as our overall sound, so not seems like I'm making another major musical purchase at least once a year.

I'm currently gigging with a Kurzweil SP4-7. I'd like to have an 88-key rig, but I'd much rather lug around less weight, so it's the very light-weight 76-key Kurzweil. The pianos sound decent, and I love the lighter touch when playing live for three or four hours straight. I grabbed a Kawai 88-key stage piano last year, but it weighs a ton, so it's relegated to the home studio. I just stumbled on the Nord Piano 2 HP, and it's certainly grabbed my attention for having everything I think I want for my gigging rig.

But -- that price tag gives me pause. I've never spent this much on any board -- I've always been able to get by with lower-budget gear. So what I'd like to know from those of you who know is, what makes the Nord Piano 2 HP worth triple what I've paid for my current board? Now who's going to sell me on this, and more importantly, how do I sell it to my biggest groupie (my wife)?

Thanks in advance for your advice!
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Why Nord?


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Re: Why Nord?

Postby Six-string-man » 04 Aug 2014, 22:34

If I were in your position, I would take a good long look at the Casio PX-5S. A good pro board with a great key bed, fantastic AP's and EP's, plus other sounds, and change out of $1000 in your neck of the woods.

The kicker is, it weighs just over 24 lbs, and that's for 88 keys.

I use mine as the bottom board on a two board rig. The top board is a Hammond SK1, and believe me when I say that the Casio is not over shadowed by the Hammond in any way.


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Re: Why Nord?

Postby DJKeys » 05 Aug 2014, 01:08

I have owned three Nord products, NE3, Wave, and now NS2. The products are expensive, but I think they are worth the money. Here are my opinions:

1. Fantastic resale value
2. Very Light weight
3. Superior build and assembly
4. Continually updated Sound Libraries
5. Intuitive user interface

-dj

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Re: Why Nord?

Postby RedLeo » 05 Aug 2014, 01:38

I would second Six-string-man's suggestion of looking at the Casio PX-5S. Buying a Nord is a little bit like buying a Porsche or a BMW, you're paying for top quality engineering and craftsmanship, as well as access to Nord's great library of piano sounds. The question is, is that what you really need?

What you need to think about is the classic difference between "wanting" and "needing". It's not what you want to hear, but I personally wouldn't feel comfortable about endorsing your decision to buy a Nord if it's not actually the best solution for you.

However, there is a simpler answer to all this. You can look at and compare features till the cows come home, but the crucial decision should be made about the sound and feel of the instrument. Piano sounds are a very personal choice, and each brand of stage piano sounds completely different to the others. You must hear and play the instruments you're seriously looking at buying, and my guess is that will make it obvious to you which stage piano is the right one for you.

If you can't actually get your hands on the keyboards you're considering, then Youtube is the place to find loads of demos of the various keyboards available.
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Re: Why Nord?

Postby cphollis » 05 Aug 2014, 06:21

If I didn't have the money for Nords, I certainly would own the Casio PX-5S. It's truly amazing what they've done for far less than $1000 street. A bit up the ladder would be the better Yamahas -- the CP5 and CP4 -- amazing keyboard feel, but just couldn't cut it onstage for me. And the Kurzs are multi-talented wonders, including solid pianos. Korg, Roland, the list goes on. I've played them all.

But I lust after the best sounds for my ears, so I play Nords. No apologies. I don't expect everyone to make the same choice.

What's not often discussed -- but should be -- is the role that amplification plays. I see folks spending $3500 on a Stage 2, and then $300 on a cheapo amp. Sad. Once I realized that amplification matters, I went from really liking my Nords to absolutely adoring them. Whether I'm playing in an acoustic duo, or trying to stand out in a noisy electric mix -- I've got the rich, authentic sound I crave for pianos and organs. And I'm much more in demand by other musicians as a result.

There are plenty of great stage keyboards out there to choose from, with no "bad" choices. The comment about Porsches and BMWs is reasonable -- it's all about aesthetics. If you can afford a fine instrument, you should seriously consider it.

Even if you're a weekend warrior like me :)
I think I have gear issues ....

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Re: Why Nord?

Postby Gustavo » 05 Aug 2014, 06:34

To continue the car metaphor, if you only need piano sounds it truly is a matter of a say, small compact and cheap car vs a luxurious sport car. Both of them will get you to your destination just as well, but one is more of a joy to drive... Even though such joy could only be appreciated by you and not your groupies.

If you only need piano sounds, maybe you could try and get a used Nord Piano 1 or even a Nod Stage Classic. Might be much cheaper and in the end they user the same piano samples with just minor differences.

Otherwise, I do recommend the Casio PX5S, it truly is amazingly light and good sounding for a "budget" stage piano.

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Re: Why Nord?

Postby Six-string-man » 05 Aug 2014, 11:11

I had a quick look at some of these replies this morning, and have a couple of comments.

First of all, cphollis on amplification. He is 100% correct. I have an Electro 4, and ran it through a H&K Nano ($750). It sounded terrible. Now, the Nano sounds great for my guitars, and for an old Roland organ that I have, but it just won't cut it for Nord gear. Unless you are willing to spend a couple of thousand dollars minimum on decent amplification, your Nords are going to sound like crap.

Secondly (also cphollis) on the Yamaha CP4 & CP5. Both great, but you're up in weight again. Apart from that, I think the CP5 may be discontinued.

Someone mentioned the Nord sound Library. There is a very active PX-5S group going, and never a week goes by without someone posting up a new free downloadable sound. There are not as many downloads as there are in the Nord library (yet), but the Casio has not been available for as long as the Nords! I will also say that the Nord Acoustic Piano library is possibly slightly superior to that of the Casio, but in a band mix, you probably wouldn't notice the difference. In the non-piano sounds, the libraries are of similar quality. The Electric Pianos are better in the Casio. Some of them were designed by Dave Weiser, who used to be a sound designer for Kurzweil. If your Kurz is more than about five years old, you probably have Dave to thank for the noises you get out of it.

Also, with the PX5S, you get a guy called Mike Martin. He is the US Marketing Manager for Casio, but more importantly, he is an enthusiast. He answers questions on the Casio Facebook page and other forums, he solves problems, and is generally one of the most helpful guys out there. I was having problems with a patch, he wrote one for me, and posted it up as a free download LESS THAN 24 HOURS AFTER I MENTIONED I WAS HAVING PROBLEMS. He is always putting new sounds up for download. He also does periodic clinics where you can phone in. These are streamed live, and are also put up on the Casio site for later referral, in case you missed the phone-in.

You may be able to tell, I am a fan!

The other thing is, if you can't get to a store and actually try these boards (which is highly recommended), plenty of companies will send you stuff on 30 day approval. If you don't like it, just send it back!


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Re: Why Nord?

Postby Dave Ferris » 05 Aug 2014, 23:32

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Re: Why Nord?

Postby Sleepngbear » 06 Aug 2014, 03:44

Wow -- lots of great info here. Thanks much.

One thing I forgot to mention -- aside from not wanting to lug around extra-heavy gear, we are also often times space-constrained as well; about half the places we play, I'd have a hard time fitting an 88-key board. So while the PX-5S sounds like an awesome board for the money, it's not quite at the top of my list right now.

On amplification, I couldn't agree more. I've got an old but decent Peavey keyboard amp at home that synths sound pretty nice through, but pianos sound like absolute crap. So I've got the Kawai MP-6 going through a pair of small powered monitors, and it sounds about like I'm banging on a real grand piano. More than good enough for home, for sure. On the road, we use one of two pairs of powered PA's depending on the size of the place, and I'm extremely pleased with the sound I get from them.

As I said, I'm always looking for ways to improve any aspect of the sound, be it my playing or the board itself. I'm satisfied with the acoustic pianos in the Kurzweil, but not blown away; and I'm really not happy with the EP's at all. I really like the sounds out of the MP-6, but that turned out to not be the board I want to gig with. I love Yamaha's piano sounds, but they don't make a 76-key stage piano, and if they did it would probably be too bulky anyway.

The Nord Piano 2 HP is one of a very few that are the ideal size and weight for me and what I need, like my Kurz. It looks like it's also semi-weighted like my Kurz, another big plus. I've always gone the moderately cheap route on boards -- not bargain-basement crap, but just good enough to get by. The Kawai was the first time I kind of splurged, but it's not quite filling the role I had planned for it. I don't want to say money is no object, because it kind of is. But for the right sound and the right level of playing enjoyment, I'd make it happen. That's what I'm trying to decide here, if it's worth making it happen -- I'm trying to understand what it is that makes a premium board stand above the others.

As for actually trying them out, that's where I have a problem. There's only Guitar Center around here, and their keyboard selection has dwindled from ok to downright pitiful. I had never considered that a company might offer a trial period -- it's not something I've seen advertised, but certainly something I'll ask about next time I take a plunge.

Meanwhile, keep the info coming -- I'm appreciating and enjoying everyone's very interesting perspectives.
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Re: Why Nord?

Postby cphollis » 06 Aug 2014, 03:54

Hmmm ... can't fit an 88 vs. a 76? We're talking a matter of a few inches and a few pounds. Not much in the big scheme of things. Tell the drummer to move over ...

I've got a Stage 2 76 which I use as a one-board-wonder for pop music. I can't tell you how many times I've found myself running out of keys because I forgot I was playing a 76 vs. a real 88, especially the bass. Now I wish I had splurged for the 88.

Trying them out is a major headache, unless you're fortunate to live within a few hours of a serious music store. The effort required to ship something back is not trivial, which means you'll probably keep what they send you.

I did some music store scouting by phone, inquired as to their inventory, and then made an appointment to come in and do some serious evaluation. If you plan on playing live, don't use headphones -- make them hook up a QSC K10, Yamaha DXR10 or similar.

And, of course, once they've spent all that time on you, be prepared to buy from them :)
I think I have gear issues ....

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