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what's the best piano live?
I am struggling to use any of the grands: they seem to all lack 'presence' with bass & drums. The uprights come across with my amplification system (JBL) much better - anyone have anything to chip in about this??
Last edited by srprose on 31 Jul 2012, 12:27, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: what's the best piano live?
The sound from a digital piano relies heavily on the PA system, and even if you have a great mixer and great loudspeakers the acoustic qualities of the room and the placement of the speakers can make a lot of difference.
It could be that the upright pianos have a more "in your face" sound whereas the grands are much more "airy" with a large tonal spectrum and also very "clean" sounding. Nevertheless I personally favor the grands to the uprights (because most of the uprights usually sounds too much out of tune... only the upright Boesendorfer sounds perfectly in tune).
One advice that I've seen by experienced players is simply to turn up the volume to make the piano cut through... you may have to back down on the bass and perhaps on the treble on the mixer if the deep register on the piano becomes too boomy and the high register becomes too shrill. Another thing is to be aware of the level of reverb. Some of the Nord piano samples have an amount of reverb "built in" to them and if you add further reverb to that then the sound becomes too distant in the mix. Finally: try using the "Bright Grand" sample.
It could be that the upright pianos have a more "in your face" sound whereas the grands are much more "airy" with a large tonal spectrum and also very "clean" sounding. Nevertheless I personally favor the grands to the uprights (because most of the uprights usually sounds too much out of tune... only the upright Boesendorfer sounds perfectly in tune).
One advice that I've seen by experienced players is simply to turn up the volume to make the piano cut through... you may have to back down on the bass and perhaps on the treble on the mixer if the deep register on the piano becomes too boomy and the high register becomes too shrill. Another thing is to be aware of the level of reverb. Some of the Nord piano samples have an amount of reverb "built in" to them and if you add further reverb to that then the sound becomes too distant in the mix. Finally: try using the "Bright Grand" sample.
Last edited by copenhagen2 on 31 Jul 2012, 12:27, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: what's the best piano live?
May favorite used to be the Grand Lady D until I started messing around with Studio Grand 2. I find it works way better in live situations...
Last edited by Cee on 31 Jul 2012, 12:27, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: what's the best piano live?
I don't like any of the acoustic grands (but I "only" have an electro 3). Live I play the electric grand CP80 - absolutely love it.
Last edited by shark on 31 Jul 2012, 12:27, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: what's the best piano live?
copenhagen2 wrote:The sound from a digital piano relies heavily on the PA system, and even if you have a great mixer and great loudspeakers the acoustic qualities of the room and the placement of the speakers can make a lot of difference.
It could be that the upright pianos have a more "in your face" sound whereas the grands are much more "airy" with a large tonal spectrum and also very "clean" sounding. Nevertheless I personally favor the grands to the uprights (because most of the uprights usually sounds too much out of tune... only the upright Boesendorfer sounds perfectly in tune).
One advice that I've seen by experienced players is simply to turn up the volume to make the piano cut through... you may have to back down on the bass and perhaps on the treble on the mixer if the deep register on the piano becomes too boomy and the high register becomes too shrill. Another thing is to be aware of the level of reverb. Some of the Nord piano samples have an amount of reverb "built in" to them and if you add further reverb to that then the sound becomes too distant in the mix. Finally: try using the "Bright Grand" sample.
thanks for your reply, as most of the live problems come form the mid range, tweaking the bright grand for the room is sometimes an option. However I still think the grand samples need a bit more presence or solidity which seems to be better captured in the uprights samples. A request to nord would be for a punchy close miked grand that worked well live. I think they would clean up the DP market. Perhaps this is a holy grail that no one can find...
Last edited by srprose on 31 Jul 2012, 12:27, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: what's the best piano live?
copenhagen2 wrote:The sound from a digital piano relies heavily on the PA system, and even if you have a great mixer and great loudspeakers the acoustic qualities of the room and the placement of the speakers can make a lot of difference.
Definitely..
Last edited by Dave Ferris on 31 Jul 2012, 12:27, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: what's the best piano live?
Dave Ferris wrote:copenhagen2 wrote:The sound from a digital piano relies heavily on the PA system, and even if you have a great mixer and great loudspeakers the acoustic qualities of the room and the placement of the speakers can make a lot of difference.
Definitely..
true but I've had about a dozen different keyboards over roughly 30 years of playing professionally. I still think Clavia could improve the presence of the grands, actually I find my old NE2 piano has more usability live sometimes, despite the less realistic sound. It's a pity we can't use the electro sounds in the NP. Also I'm finding a lack of bite in the upper 3rd of the rhodes pianos' anyone else finding this?
Last edited by srprose on 31 Jul 2012, 12:27, edited 2 times in total.
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what's the best piano live?
Most recently I found myself playing the Imperial Grand on a very large stage arena type setting with bass, vocals drums and guitar in the band. I EQ'd the settings to give it more body Bass 2.4, Mid 3.1, Treb 2.6.
However in a more intimate club type setting I used the Lady D with the same instrumentation, however the EQ settings were Bass 2.6, Mid 2.9, Treb 2.4.
As previously posted, It definitely depends on the system you are running thru along with a couple sound engineer variables.
I have tried the studio grand 2, and while I love the clarity and superb tone, for me it lacks the bass of the bass of the larger Imperial and Lady D.
However in a more intimate club type setting I used the Lady D with the same instrumentation, however the EQ settings were Bass 2.6, Mid 2.9, Treb 2.4.
As previously posted, It definitely depends on the system you are running thru along with a couple sound engineer variables.
I have tried the studio grand 2, and while I love the clarity and superb tone, for me it lacks the bass of the bass of the larger Imperial and Lady D.
Last edited by KeyMaster88 on 31 Jul 2012, 12:27, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: what's the best piano live?
srprose wrote:Dave Ferris wrote:copenhagen2 wrote:The sound from a digital piano relies heavily on the PA system, and even if you have a great mixer and great loudspeakers the acoustic qualities of the room and the placement of the speakers can make a lot of difference.
Definitely..
true but I've had about a dozen different keyboards over roughly 30 years of playing professionally. I still think Clavia could improve the presence of the grands, actually I find my old NE2 piano has more usability live sometimes, despite the less realistic sound. It's a pity we can't use the electro sounds in the NP. Also I'm finding a lack of bite in the upper 3rd of the rhodes pianos' anyone else finding this?
I agree. There's still "something" missing. The pianos have that "software piano" vibe is the best way I can describe it. They sound great over a recording and very good out in the room during a gig if you're listening to someone else play your keyboard.
However if I'm sitting close to my monitors on stage, things can still sound harsh, digital and no body to the sound. Although I do think the 12" 2 way cab is an improvement over the 8" cab in giving the Nords more fullness.
Agree on the Rhodes too. I'm not a huge Rhodes player these days but when I do use them, the only one that cuts through for me (unless the volume level of the band is very soft) is the sparkletop one.
I have no experience with the E2 at all. That was basically off my radar for piano from the beginning because of the action.
Last edited by Dave Ferris on 31 Jul 2012, 12:27, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: what's the best piano live?
I listened to my NP88 from across the room the other evening - don't get to do that much - and it really sounded 'authentic' - very much like the real thing. Yet it's hard for me to get the sound right at the piano bench - having a Grand at home raises the bar.
Of course, if it sounds good out in the room I should be happy !
The Nord seems to be very dependent on playing at the proper volume level (approximating a real piano) and having fairly neutral speakers.
I generally use the Grand Lady D for solo or trio work, using an external eq to give a little more 'body' to the sound and adding a little pad with my Mac laptop,, but I'm often using the Bright Grand in the quintet (which has a guitar).
And lately I've been stacking the NP88 with my older Yamaha P250 and doing some layering. I may not ever be completely satisfied, but I'm going to keep trying things !
Of course, if it sounds good out in the room I should be happy !
The Nord seems to be very dependent on playing at the proper volume level (approximating a real piano) and having fairly neutral speakers.
I generally use the Grand Lady D for solo or trio work, using an external eq to give a little more 'body' to the sound and adding a little pad with my Mac laptop,, but I'm often using the Bright Grand in the quintet (which has a guitar).
And lately I've been stacking the NP88 with my older Yamaha P250 and doing some layering. I may not ever be completely satisfied, but I'm going to keep trying things !
Last edited by jazzonebyone on 31 Jul 2012, 12:27, edited 2 times in total.
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