Nord User Forum

[Kaorin]

Hi All

I recently bought a Nord Piano and I really love it. It sounds truly amazing and I'm sure my crappy playing doesn't do it justice. It gives me a real reason to get some practicing done.

Anyway, I usually listen to the piano through a pair of Shure HRH840 headphones and the Bosendorfer Imperial Grand sounds amazing. Tonnes of bass in the low end, and loads of sparkly detail at the top. I wanted to connect it to my Hifi so I could inflict my playing on those around me. It's connected through a pair of quarter inch TS to RCA Phono cables to a line level input on my amp. I can hear sound fine but it sounds really wooly and lacking in detail. It's difficult to describe, slightly muffled or like listening to it from a different room. It's a little like listening to it in mono and definitely lacking in both bass and treble. I was wondering what could be causing this problem.

I'm sorry if this is a noob question, but I live in Japan and don't speak the language so I can't easily ask my local shop.

I've tried various things, I swapped out the cable for a different one, tried a different line level input etc. The piano is on 1.28 and running the Bosendorfer XL, Steinway and Yamaha samples. All the effects etc. on the panel are set to off. The piano is set to stereo, and string resonance and pedal noise are both on.

On the hifi side, it's a Marantz PM-15 amp and a pair of B&W CM1's. Whilst it's hardly high end kit, they do sound nice enough and I know they're much more capable than the sound I'm currently getting.

I don't really understand about unbalanced connections, or the differences between 'home' and 'pro' kit with regards to PAs etc. If anyone could give me some advice on whether it's possible to connect a stage piano to a normal Hifi, or anything I'd need to change, it'd be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Kaorin

[-Toro-]

hello Kaorin and welcome to the forum!
you don't need to apologize for asking questions. that is the purpose of this forum. :-)

i assume you mean SRH840 (and not HRH)? the SRH840 "delivers rich bass, clear mid-range and extended highs" according to the brochure.

it's obvious your head phones and you hifi equipment don't colour sounds in the same way. if you want to use the head phones as a reference, you'll have to process the sound (through an EQ or through your amplifiers tone control) when playing on your hifi system.

hope this helps!

[Kaorin]

Hi

Thanks for the reply. Yes, you're right about the model number for the headphones :)

I'm not sure if it's entirely an equaliser problem. I've tried playing around with the tone controls on both the piano and the amp and while they make it sound a little better, it doesn't sound 'right'. The sound problem is more a lack of detail. Kinda like the difference between AM radio and a CD, the resolution of the sound is really poor. So for example listening to a youtube clip of piano music on the Hifi has all the low end, high end and all the detail across the spectrum and sounds as good as you could expect a Youtube clip to sound. Annoyingly I don't have any piano music on CD that I can use as a reference. Interestingly the clips of the Bosendorfer sounded pretty similar through the Hifi to the piano's efforts through the headphones.

I was wondering if anyone had any ideas about actual 'low quality' sound issues?

Thanks in advance

Kaorin

[jazzonebyone]

Have you tried another line input on the PM-15, maybe the one the CD player is using ?

[Kaorin]

Hi

Yes, I've tried both Line1 and Line2 on the amp. I even checked I hadn't plugged it into the photo stage by mistake :D

Kaorin

[Hanon_CTS]

Hello Kaorin,
I took a look at the advertised frequency response of the B & W CM1 speakers and it appears that their response is severely limited below 55Hz. I wasn't able to find a distribution graph of their frequency response anywhere on the 'net, but is stated to produce within + or - 2db of the input reference from 55Hz up to 22kHz

You have encountered a problem that faces all electronic musicians: "What does my instrument really sound like? When does my instrument not sound like it should?"

There is a wealth of talent and experience within this forum, I'm sure someone will have some helpful recommendations.

IMHO,
the problem is your speakers, not your instrument, amp, or unbalanced cabling.

Balanced verses unbalanced becomes an issue in a high interference environment "radio or electromagnetic" and when the audio cable length is likely to be greater than 6 meters.

Balanced is a 3 wire connection (XLR, TRS) in which the shield "drain" wire is a dedicated connection, terminated on one end, and not carrying any audio signal component. The wires that carry audio are equal in size, length, and impedance hence the term "balanced".

Unbalanced is a 2 wire connection (TS, RCA) in which the audio cold connection is the shield "drain" and is connected on each end and typically has a much higher resistance and impedance "unbalanced" than the center conductor which carries the audio hot.

There are a lot of threads here about trying to find the best speakers/ monitors for reproducing the Nord's sound.

I believe that you should get a dedicated sound system for your piano, or get an EQ for your existing sound system "to compensate for room dynamics" and speakers which give and overall broader-flatter response than your CM1 "like your headphones do".

This is a good article about near field monitoring: http://gonzoft.tripod.com/articles/a6/a6.htm It is well worth the time to read it.

Cheers, Hanon

[Kaorin]

Hi all

Thanks for all the info, it's really been helpful.

Okay, I think I've got this licked and it's been a combination of things (making troubleshooting really hard)

First, thanks for the article about monitors etc. It got me thinking about the way my room was set up. When I originally bought the CM1's, I got them because I needed something small and compact without ludicrous bass extension that'd get me evicted from my apartment. I placed them on stands up against the rear wall either side of the TV and toe-ed them in towards 'the Daddy seat' which is where I sit when I listen to music / use the PC / watch TV etc. I set them at a distance to give me a real sweet spot for bass and everything sounded fine.

The piano (being opaque) couldn't be placed in front of the TV so it got shunted into a corner, placing it in a 'bass hole'. Whenever I did any critical listening of the Hifi I was sat in the Daddy seat, but critical listening of the piano was done at the piano. A rather schoolboy error.

Also, due to Japanese houses being made from Kit-kat wrappers and matchsticks, there's no soundproofing between apartments, so I couldn't turn the sound up very loud. I had been wondering if it was a 'loudness' issue, basically amps and speakers sound differently based on how hard they're working. I've been experimenting and I've found a good combination between volume levels on the Nord and Marantz and everything sounds much better. I opened up the throttle on the speakers and they sound ten times better now.

I also found a bit of corrosion / dust on the phono connectors on the amp, I don't know if that was a problem but I cleaned them up and everything is shiny again.

I'm toying with the idea of getting some active monitors for the piano but I'm massively space (and money) limited. I found a pair of Logitech Z-10 computer speakers laying around and hooked them up and for casual use they're fine and sound better than the Hifi does when the piano is in its corner. Hilariously, their 3 inch woofers can barely register the lowest note on the piano but at least I now have another option. In the future I may buy a sub and add that to the Hifi and see if I can set up the placement so the piano isn't in a bass hole anymore.

My biggest relief is that there doesn't appear to be any problems with the piano, and that the problem is solved by moving the piano to the sweet spot in the room which luckily costs nothing!

Thanks for all your advice and suggestions

Kind regards

Kaorin

[Bandinabox]

I have a dedicated Bose L1 compact (2 for full stereo) and the Clavia NS 2. It sounds bad compared to my Yamaha CP1.
Almost like a phase error in the signal. A bit better if I pan left/right all the way. The Piano sounds great recorded. check my samples at http://www.solopianodiary.com the only thing to notice on thoose recordings is that I play with the Yamaha N3 as a master keyboard. The NS2 is to high velocity, a shame I cant change that! It hits the "bottom" to fast.