Nord User Forum

[Piano Jochen]

I am looking for a digital piano and found that the Nord Pianos outperform the competitor's models in many aspects that are important to me, that is the sound library concept, the straightforward control panel, the look, the shape and size etc. Although I haven't liked the light keyboard action of the previous models, the new keybed of version 3 is very promising.

My concern is the sound quality. The Nord pianos I have tested in stores all sounded flat to me, in terms of dynamic depth and harmonics. However, in reviews they are always acclaimed to be among the very best on the market. How could this discrepancy been explained? Should the factory-loaded sounds be small samples only? Or did I miss to turn on a certain feature to hear the full potential of the instrument?

I will be very happy to learn how to enjoy, upon my next visit to a store, the sounds as described by the reviews and make my decision in favor of the Nord Piano 3. Please advise.

[Eumel]

Hi Piano Jochen,

this is my personal opinion:

Brands like Korg, Yamaha, Roland, Kurzweil, ... try to sample pianos with an 'engineering' approach. What I mean by saying so is that they try to get rid of all artefacts make every single key sound exactly the same (which a real pinao does not of course). If you like that 'perfect and therefore unrealistic' approach - ok, pick one of those.

IMHO Clavia's approach is very different: They keep some 'dirt' in the samples which makes the character very natural.

For me, playing piano and keyboard since years, I can really detect acoustically what brand of electronic piano is used (if so) when listening to music - this really drives me crazy. Like I posted earlier already: Clavia Nord pianos do not sound like a Clavia Nord piano but like a real piano. This is not true for Yamaha, Kawai, Roland...

Maybe you can compare it like this: If brands other than Clavia would take photos, they would use photoshop a lot, where Clavia would not...

Of course this is very subjective,

Cheers

Eumel

[Piano Jochen]

Thanks Eumel, very enlightening insight! I admit that I haven't got to that point. Still, my concern is not about the cleanliness of the sound, but about the depth when it comes to dynamic expression. I will try to further explain this:

If you look at the previous generations of Roland and Yamaha digital pianos, Roland used to sound less natural, but extremely expressive and therefor very useful to my opinion, whereas Yamaha claimed to have a very natural sound, which they had, but I always got bored when playing their pianos, because there was no more response when I hit a key really hard, nor did it get mallow when playing pianissimo. The Nord Piano sounds I have tested have left an impression similar to those of the older Yamaha pianos. I am aware that this depends on the dynamic range of the samples, the care that is taken in capturing the harmonic differences and how they are mapped to the velocity signal form the keys, so the main part of my concern could be translated into the question:

Is there at least one piano in the library that has that very dynamic response I am looking for?


There might be a second cause that has kept me from being delighted with the piano sounds, but I'm not quite sure about this one: The audio quality in the stores seemed dull to me. Both, the limited dynamic range and the limited audio quality, could be a consequence of using one of the smaller sample sizes. This comes down to the question I asked in my initial post:

Could anybody confirm if the factory-loaded samples are of the smaller sizes only? If so, do the full-size pianos have that rich audio quality I was missing?

[Quai34]

If you haven't checked the XL Pianos with long release and pedal noise, you have missed all what does make Nord Pianos special...

[maurus]

Jochen, how did you listen to the sounds of the Nord Piano Library? In order to enjoy the full dynamics of these sounds, you need a high quality audio chain (headphones or amplification). Whether you use the L or XL versions is less crucial than some think in terms of dynamics, but there is a big difference between these and the M and S versions concerning resonances (with M versions bass and treble section lack full resonances, with S versions the whole range is lacking). Moreover, the more recent piano sounds are better than the earlier sounds when it comes to dynamics (Grand Lady, Studio Grand 1&2 etc. are less dynamic than the Bösendorfer Grand Imperial, the Fazioli Italian Grand, the Shigeru Silver Grand etc.).

Moreover one should note that some other makes (Yamaha and Roland digital pianos in particular) sometimes offer MORE than the dynamics of a real acoustic piano (in my experience, Yamaha tends to overdo velocity dynamics whereas Roland tends to overdo the dynamics in timbre variation from pp to ff). Of course in some electronic contexts this may be desirable, for some. As stated above by Eumel, Clavia tends to go for a fairly "natural" sonic behavior (as would be that of a mic'ed acoustic piano).

[Piano Jochen]

Thanks Quai34 and Maurus for your greatly appreciated comments.

Just to avoid any confusion: I am not looking for overdone dynamics, but I do love acoustic pianos with very expressive timbre variations over the dynamic range. In fact, my reference is my own acoustic piano, a Yamaha C5, which years ago I have picked for this reason, among others.

I agree that different acoustic pianos behave very differently and not all pianists use or even want a very wide dynamic range either. However, from having played a real Fazioli a few times, I'd say it was at least as responsive as my Yamaha, and so should be the Fazioli sample, provided that the far ends of the pp to ff scale have been captured.

I'd greatly welcome if any user who also likes very expressive dynamics as described above shared her or his experience with Nord piano sounds in this regard.

Following your comments, I will check the Bösendorfer, the Fazioli and the Shigeru upon the next opportunity. By the way, I will travel to Detroit in July. Any good Nord dealer there?

[maurus]

Jochen, if your "standard" is a good acoustic piano such as your C5 you will know best whether any given digital instrument suits your needs. My own standard are acoustic pianos as well, including my own Shigeru Kawai SK2, which is certainly different from your C5, but again, quite some "gold standard" compared to any DP. Over the years I've tried a number of DPs for night practice, traveling and the occasional electric performance and so far the Nord has been the most satisfying solution for my needs. (I should add that at home I'm playing my Nord Electro from a Kawai VPC1 since I found the actions in the various Electro options not really satisfying.)

However, since you like your Yamaha, have you tried a Yamaha CP4?

[AlQuinn]

The Nord piano samples require high-end amplification to hear their beauty. I suspect the amplification you heard in the store was not high-end. What I learned after buying a Nord Stage 2 HA88 was that I had to upgrade my amplification which I wasn't expecting. I've since sold my Stage 2 and bought a CP4 mainly because of the action.

[Dave Ferris]

I had 4 years total with the first two generations of Nord pianos - NP88 & NP2. I've been using the CP4 for the last two years. Mainly for the more responsive action while playing jazz. Also the Yamaha CFX sample is more even in all registers for single note line solos. Again something of great importance while playing jazz…less so for pop and rock.

Although I haven't played anything newer then the Faziloi sample since I sold my NP2 in Sept. of '14. I understand the newer samples are more even up and down the keyboard in all registers.

To echo the other replies, you definitely need higher end speakers and amplification, it seems more so with the Nords then my CP4. If it's for home use only, you can get away with a decent, inexpensive pair of Yamaha studio monitors that will be fine. Live however, with a band, requires a higher quality speaker set up. I've spent quite a bit more on my pair of RCF TT08As and JMK Audio Jm-110 di/pre then any of my pianos.

It is an upgrade, action wise, from the NP2. I played it shortly at NAMM but didn't come away with anything overly inspiring. This was due largely to the severe background ambient noise and the Radio Shack quality headphones that were provided. I'm looking forward to playing it under more favorable listening conditions.

Good luck on the NP3 or whatever you decide on. I do think it will be popular among more serious pianist types and certainly will be competition for the CP4.

[Piano Jochen]

Hi all,

I feel honored for receiving your posts and wishes. Definitely, I will give Nord another try and make sure the conditions are right when testing it.

It is funny that 3 of you mentioned the Yamaha CP4. In your opinion, after having gained experience with both, Nord Piano and CP4, how do they compare in terms of the natural character that Eumel described above?

Dave, did you try Dexibell Vivo at NAMM?