Nord's classical Virtual Analog Synth Nord LEAD 1/2/2x/3/4/A1 and Nord Rack versions

Nord Lead 2x restore all factory sounds

Postby rod24945 » 03 Jan 2016, 23:08

Hello All

Help needed for a newbie to carry out what is probably a simple task!

I bought a used Nord Lead 2x and want to restore the original factory sound set to the synth, using a Mac (OS 10.6.8) and Sysex Librarian. I have the midi leads hooked up correctly using a Motu Fastlane midi interface loaded the 5 banks of sysex files into it (Banks: 0,1,2,3, and Perf0). See attached screen shot.
Hoping (naively) that all the patches would load into their correct banks, I simply selected each and then clicked 'Play' - they all seemed to go off from Sysex OK, and the Nord's LED's counted up each time. The keys all produce sounds, but when checking the names of the sounds in the 2x manual (P94 onwards) some of the sounds don't match the more obvious names in the print out lists.

Is there any way to physically 'pre-select' Banks on the 2x, before sending off each bank of data via the Sysex Librarian to ensure that all sounds go off to their correct destinations?

Many thanks in advance and a Happy New Year to All.

Rod
Attachments
Screen Shot 2016-01-03 at 21.04.06.png
Sysex Librarian window
Screen Shot 2016-01-03 at 21.04.06.png (48.27 KiB) Viewed 3480 times
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Nord Lead 2x restore all factory sounds


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Re: Nord Lead 2x restore all factory sounds

Postby Happy » 04 Jan 2016, 07:30

P105: If the Sys Ex data for a complete Bank is sent (using the “Dump All” command), the Program location within the Bank is stored for each Patch. When any or all of these Patches are sent back to a Nord Lead 2X, they will be stored at their original Program Location, but in the Bank that is currently selected on the Nord Lead 2X.

Based on this the NL2X appears to ignore the bank# byte in the dump and only uses the patch location within the Sysex.

SYSEX factory files patch starting data

B0: F0 33 0F 04 02 00 08 04 03 05 02 04 0D 01 00 00 0B 05 0E . .. => 1st Sysex (6th byte 00)
F0 33 0F 04 02 01 0C 03 07 05 0B 03 0C 01 04 03 0F 07 0B 03 00 . . . => 2nd (01)
F0 33 0F 04 02 02 0C 03 05 04 02 04 00 00 00 00 0A 06 07 0 . . .=> 3rd (02)

B1: F0 33 0F 04 03 00 0C 03 03 04 09 03 0D 03 00 00 0A 03 08 ...

B2: F0 33 0F 04 04 00 0C 03 00 04 0E 03 00 03 00 01 02 03 08 ...

B3: F0 33 0F 04 02 00 09 05 02 03 00 00 0B 02 06 02 0A 00 00 ... (1st patch)
F0 33 0F 04 02 01 0C 03 01 04 01 04 02 02 09 01 06 03 0A (2nd patch)

33: Clavia
0F: dev ID
04: model
02/03/04: message type => Spec says values should be 0 to 1, = Bank 1 to 10 where and 0-3 is Slot button A to D.. Weird...
00 exact patch location

I have not played with bank dumps (only patch dumps), and came to the conclusion that the NL2X Manual midi implementation description is incorrect (perhaps for over 10 years) so it would not be surprising if these factory files are also incorrect. (unless someone has used them and they are correct. Because Nord does not releases Sysex implementation anymore for newer products, (A1, 4, Drum) it a reason for myself to not to buy any current an future Nord products. There is absolutely no reason to omit this in the specification or provide this. (It' comes with pain, because most Clavia products are really fantastic). Clavia could look at Roland, DSI and Yamaha how to do it properly. anyhow, that is just me.

Now since the NL2X ingnores the bank # byte in the Sysex Maybe you could try to dump one file into all 4 banks, then all sound should be the same. Some other things are
- Check if the MIDI interface is processing SYSEX correctly.
- Check your Global MIDI channel is set to 16 (Dev ID = 0F)
- speed of transmission, maybe add some delays between the bytes and each Sysex
- Make sure you select Bank 0 ,1 ,2 or 3, since all others are ROM

Are there some particular presets that are clear incorrect ? I could experiment and check those presets and Bank dump when I have some time.
[Too bad I did not dump all the presets when I bought the 2X and compared them with the files from Clavia]

PS. I read on some forums that MOTU often have SYSEX problems. I use the Maudio MIDISport and those seems some of the few interfaces that work perfectly for Sysex.

Maybe other NL2X users could comment on their experience with these factory files.
Last edited by Happy on 04 Jan 2016, 07:40, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Nord Lead 2x restore all factory sounds

Postby rod24945 » 04 Jan 2016, 14:47

Hello There

Many thanks for your prompt reply and the suggestions.

It could well be the case that the Motu / Fastlane is part of the problem and all I can say is that it seems to be sending data: i.e. the lights on the Motu Flash and the Nord LED counts up through the programs as they arrive. So far as I can see, all keys on the Nord do produce sounds, following the transfer - but in some cases, those sounds don't map onto those described on the listings shown on page 94 of the 2x manual. However, this is not always the case, for example . . . . . . .

Bank (0) prog 7, should be a Vibe Bell - but is in fact a dull drum sound
Bank (0) prog 18, should be a Arpeggiate Me - but is in fact a an organ type sound
Bank (0) prog 20, should be Glass Voices - but is in fact a quiet twanging sound

If on the other hand, I go up the program banks to . . .

Bank (1) prog 1.30 should be a Random Arpeggiator and it is
Bank (1) prog 1.28, should be an Analog Grand it is
Bank (1) prog 1.49, should be a Trumpet, it is

I haven't tried every program bank, but so far as I can tell, the mismatch appears to be in Bank (0)

My Global channel is currently set to 16 and the Motu Fastlane works fine with Sysex on my Roland SH-201 and with the Microkorg Sound Manager, but I do accept that this may not be so with the Nord. I'll see if I can borrow a Midisport.

I've also made sure that the transfers were made with the Nord set to Bank 0,1 etc.

I hope this makes some sense and once again, I thank you for yur speed of reply and patience in outlining possible hiccups.

Best wishes

Rod

I spoke to Rob Wallace (at soundtech / Nord Support - 01462 480000) he's always a great help and very knowledgeable - his suggestion was that the sounds in the currently downloaded sound bank may no longer match up to those listed in the original 2x manual. To the best of his knowledge this hasn't been updated and he didn't know of any newly issued listings.

In summary, it seems that the sysex data has (in the main) transferred safely, with the exception of some sounds in Bank 0.

As a relative Newbie to MIDI, the Midi codes are a little beyond me and so far, my experience of midi has been to use it with sequencers etc. I had hoped to use the Nord Sound Manager given that it sounded to be an easy way to 'Dump' sounds onto the Nord, but on checking - it's not listed as being compatible with the 2x and when I tried it, it wasn't.
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Re: Nord Lead 2x restore all factory sounds

Postby Happy » 05 Jan 2016, 08:27

Hi There, my 2X is relatively new and most of original presets should be intact. I'll check my banks and compare then to the manual. Probably you are correct and the manual is old. It could be same like I experienced with the Sysex documentation which is different from the implementation. Anyhow, creating your own patches is much more fun than the presets:-) . To my horror just noticed that A1 and 4 uses proprietary patch files. So it seems Clavia has said goodbye to MIDI (at least Sysex) and open standards. Too bad to see this happen after 30 years of the first time instruments got connected together. what's next, manufacturers will move to proprietary replacement for Note On/Off and CC?
Last edited by Happy on 05 Jan 2016, 08:42, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Nord Lead 2x restore all factory sounds

Postby Happy » 09 Jan 2016, 09:19

After checking, the manual should be incorrect.I did not load the factory files into my NL2X and also many patches are quite different. My NL2X was bought new from the store.
Thus the units should have come from the production line with the patches as listed on the Clavia website, which are not the same as in the manual.
Clavia probably must have lost the original factory files somewhere and did not bother to make an errata for the manual.
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